29 comments

  • Steven CavinsSteven Cavins, 5 months ago

    Photoshop has had the problem of serving multiple disciplines, officially or unofficially, for a rather long time. It's arguably too unwieldy for any of these disciplines as result, and hence they've tried a few things, including new products, new features, and new modes.

    As result, we get a nice big competitive market of new tools like Sketch as the design discipline evolves, and software philosophies that allow plugins to fill in customizable gaps to avoid the chimerical problem we see in Photoshop.

    Nonetheless, tool shaming is gatekeeping, and probably an odd symptom of the vast imposter syndrome and trend-chasing plague we often see in the discipline. I don't think we could say that hand-writing, typewriting or computer processing has had any effect on the quality of literature overall, but rather the skills of the individual, their team, and the quality of their intent.

    8 points
    • Mattan IngramMattan Ingram, 5 months ago

      Nonetheless, tool shaming is gatekeeping, and probably an odd symptom of the vast imposter syndrome and trend-chasing plague we often see in the discipline. I don't think we could say that hand-writing, typewriting or computer processing has had any effect on the quality of literature overall, but rather the skills of the individual, their team, and the quality of their intent.

      It's only gatekeeping if there is a significant limitation to accessing that tool. Sure $99 is not "cheap" and it is only available on Mac, but I would hardly argue that Sketch is limited in its accessibility to designers.

      The idea that tools have no effect on the end result has always struck me as absurd. A longer lever will allow you to lift more than a shorter one. A power tool will let you build something faster than a hand powered tool. Yes design is much more than just the tool you use, but I guarantee you that the same designer will build out a large web app design project in Sketch faster and more efficiently than in Photoshop.

      Typewriting, computer processing, etc absolutely had an effect on the quality of literature in both positive and negative ways. It allowed a greater number of people to write quickly and at scale. It allows for lower cost spell-checking and access to tools like the dictionary and thesaurus in an immediate manner.

      0 points
      • Steven CavinsSteven Cavins, 5 months ago

        This right here is an interesting conversation to have, sadly buried in a Photoshop-shaming DN post. For the record, I use Sketch for UI design & Photoshop for photo manipulation.

        The literature point you make, I still contest, because it conflates efficiency with quality.

        2 points
        • Mattan IngramMattan Ingram, 5 months ago

          So you are using Photoshop for what it's made for. I don't think anyone is shaming people for using Photoshop for shopping photos (and not really shaming people for using Photoshop for UI work, just encouraging them to check out better tools).

          There wasn't really an argument made about other tools providing higher quality design than Photoshop. Given enough time and effort you could make an identical design in MS Paint or with post-it notes. The point is less time, less effort, more fun, and more focus on the quality rather than the process.

          That being said I would argue having access to things like a thesaurus (without having to pull out a massive and dated book and look up the word you want) can lead to better writing as you expand your vocabulary or find a more appropriate or interesting word to use in a sentence.

          0 points
        • , 5 months ago

          I admit that the title of the post was a clickbait, so I deserve this critique. But if you read the original post you could notice there was very little of Photoshop-shaming, rather it's about Adobe XD finally becoming usable on Windows.

          I'm afraid this is something hard to understand for a Mac user. I have a Mac but for various reasons I stay on Windows, one of them is to better understand what is to be a web designer/developer on Windows. I remember Sketch becoming popular for UI work in 2014 or so. Already at that time I thought it would be nice to have a similar tool on Windows. Just to learn that Sketch will never become available for Windows users. Since I design just occasionally, I wasn't really forced to switch to Mac/Sketch.

          Then Adobe XD came early in 2016, again only for Mac. So it's been another year of waiting for a Sketch-like tool on Windows. Just now XD is becoming usable on Windows even though it's still missing gradients, symbols and other things.

          In my opinion more effective tool has impact on quality because being effective means you can try or test more combinations in a shorter time. Also if some features which should increase design consistency (eg. artboards, symbols, text styles) are easy to use, you more likely will be using them. The same applies to features which are not present in Photoshop at all, like prototyping or easy sharing designs for feedback. Photoshop has always felt to me like I have ideas and I could do some good stuff but the tool hinders me in doing so.

          0 points
    • Thomas Michael SemmlerThomas Michael Semmler, 5 months ago

      Nonetheless, tool shaming is gatekeeping, and probably an odd symptom of the vast imposter syndrome and trend-chasing plague we often see in the discipline

      YES. I have nothing to add.

      1 point
  • Anthony FonteAnthony Fonte, 5 months ago

    This article couldn't be further from the case. If you don't use Photoshop, EVER, you're not doing your job right as a designer.

    7 points
    • , 5 months ago

      Can you please explain what is a use case of Photoshop for a web or app designer using Sketch or Adobe XD? Except editing photos.

      1 point
      • Anthony FonteAnthony Fonte, 5 months ago

        I'm saying use the tool that gets the job done. To say Ps has no place in a web designer or product designers arsenal is just ignorant. They all get the job done. Sketch is great for rapid iteration of ideas, but I won't ever believe you can get as high fidelity of a design out of Sketch as you can in Photoshop.

        7 points
        • , 5 months ago

          So you are on a Mac? Then you probably cannot understand what these times mean to Windows UI designers and what the article is about. On Mac you have a choice - Sketch, Adobe XD, Photoshop, Illustrator - as you said use whatever tool appropriate for the job.

          On Windows, until recently you were forced to use Photoshop or Illustrator for any UI work. But it's so much easier and faster to use Adobe XD. Please allow us, Windows users, a bit of excitement.

          0 points
        • D. M.D. M., 5 months ago

          They all get the job done. Sketch is great for rapid iteration of ideas, but I won't ever believe you can get as high fidelity of a design out of Sketch...

          Do you find that you favor fidelity over lightweight files and the use of symbols? If you do, you're probably in the minority here. Photoshop has its uses, but its already become obsolete for designing products. Why else would Adobe feel the need to launch Adobe XD?

          1 point
          • Anthony FonteAnthony Fonte, 5 months ago

            By high-fidelity, I mean something that has some character and doesn't look like a carbon copy of everything else out there. Maybe google material design is partially to blame for that, maybe it's the whole "flat movement," but we all know Sketch isn't capable of creating super rich, visual heavy designs like photoshop can.

            4 points
            • D. M.D. M., 5 months ago

              My point is that Photoshop's clear advantages aren't a main priority in the overall scheme of designing products. Yeah, you can create more unique-looking UI, but what about creating a consistent design system? What about laying out user flows? Sketch is the clear winner in those areas and then some. I can worry about my designs not looking flat later.

              4 points
              • Anthony FonteAnthony Fonte, 5 months ago

                So, you're saying you mainly use it for higher fidelity wireframes? Where do you go to make your design look less "flat?" Photoshop isn't good for creating user flows, their art boards are awful, but that's what wireframes are for.

                1 point
                • D. M.D. M., 5 months ago

                  Sketch has sufficed for my uses even for making non-flat designs. But in an extreme case, I will hop on Illustrator for complex vectors or Photoshop for effects that I can't otherwise make. This is what I mean by main priority. I use Sketch for 85% of my work.

                  0 points
            • Steven CavinsSteven Cavins, 5 months ago

              Took a look at your portfolio. It's all very nice stuff, but I don't see anything there that couldn't be done with Sketch.

              0 points
              • Anthony FonteAnthony Fonte, 5 months ago

                Thanks for the compliments, but I'd argue you need a lot of photoshop work for the work in my portfolio. And if you're in there doing the photography editing/masking/manipulation, why not keep going? Sketch is very limiting, IMHO. To each their own, though. I just use whatever tool gets the job done best. Ps is that tool for me 95% of the time. I just don't see a need to use more than one program to design my layouts.

                2 points
                • Mattan IngramMattan Ingram, 5 months ago

                  I have heard this from multiple designers who just never actually gave Illustrator or Sketch a chance for UI and layout design.

                  Dismissing a tool offhand when so many people clearly see the advantages to it strikes me as punishing yourself unnecessarily.

                  I have never agreed with the assertion that the tool doesn't matter, only the results do. Some tools allow you to do things that other tools don't, or allow you to do the same things significantly faster and more efficiently.

                  I guarantee you that a large web app UI design job will be done faster (with no loss in ability for unique non-flat design) in Sketch than it will in Photoshop thanks to things like Artboards, Symbols, etc. Furthermore it will also be easier to then translate that design to actual code.

                  People get really stubborn about the tools they use, I find it rather strange.

                  0 points
                  • Brian AlexandrowiczBrian Alexandrowicz, 5 months ago

                    People get really stubborn about the tools they use, I find it rather strange.

                    You're being a bit stubborn yourself, here. You're essentially trying to convince him to try Sketch when he's already said that Photoshop suits him well.

                    I use Photoshop daily for UI and web design. I work for an agency that has a lot of big clients with overseas developers that still insist on having PSDs. I'm not exactly stoked on using it so heavily, but there's no chance in hell that a Fortune 500 company is going to change its internal processes just so one of its vendors can use Sketch. That means that Photoshop is the the tool of choice, and while sometimes limiting and time-consuming, it does get the job done and provides deliverables of suitable quality.

                    2 points
                    • Mattan IngramMattan Ingram, 5 months ago

                      If you have to use something because of a work requirement, it makes the point kind of irrelevant. No one is saying it is impossible to do good work with Photoshop. However following the same logic it is smart to learn Sketch considering it is the default at many places now. At my last job I could use whatever tool I wanted, at my new job Sketch is the tool we use.

                      Should a carpenter not learn a great new way to work with wood because the saw they already have has been good enough so far?

                      0 points
        • Thomas Michael SemmlerThomas Michael Semmler, 5 months ago

          Sketch is great for rapid iteration of ideas, but I won't ever believe you can get as high fidelity of a design out of Sketch...

          I kinda disagree with this statement. Photoshop and sketch shouldn't be compare in the first place. Before XD, the only thing closely related to sketch was fireworks.

          And from someone who uses sketch daily.. no. Sketch is in my opinion unfit for rapid prototyping. But I hardly encounter any situations in my daily job where that would be needed.

          0 points
      • Marc EdwardsMarc Edwards, 5 months ago

        Anything requiring complex masking. This can be many things, but Iā€™d say app icon design can be very well served by Photoshop, and is definitely a specific case where Xd falls short (if nothing else, limited gradient abilities is a show stopper).

        1 point
    • Dirk HCM van BoxtelDirk HCM van Boxtel, 5 months ago

      Can we just stop dealing in hyperbole?

      0 points
  • Leo Paulino, 5 months ago

    It is very trendy nowadays to trash Photoshop, I don't get it. These programs are simply tools for a designer and having options and more to choose is a great thing. I can't see a designer solely using one, they all bring a little bit to the table.

    The problem I see is the niche design apps that seem to come and go so often. They're built for particular trends of the month. Photoshop with all its faults is still very versatile.

    3 points
  • Scott Burns, 5 months ago

    It's really not, as much as I may like it to be. I'm aware of a number of agencies I've worked with / for whose work still resolves around it, either through inertia, developer resistance to changing (or said devs being Windows based and unable to use Sketch), have little experience with Sketch, clients wanting their work in PS or having such a large history of work that switching to another platform is seen as a lot of hassle.

    I'm also yet to encounter a university or college program around here that teaches Sketch.

    Sketch has potential to become the defacto standard, as PS was / is, but it's a bit echo chamberish to assume that's already happened. It has not.

    0 points