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UENO is about to destroy my Dribbble Leads

over 6 years ago from , Web Designer

This is not a hate letter to UENO in any way. This is more of an open discussion.

I currently run 60% of my freelance/consulting from Dribbble. Obviously I have not put all my chips into Dribbble, but it is a great source of income for my agency. Over the years I have become friends with some of the top Dribbblers in the game. There seems to be a sense of monopoly with how people find designers and hire them. Im going to be honest. This use to be my agency, Knife and Fox. For a quick minute we were ranked number one, and had about 5-10 new inquiries a week from Dribbble. We were the only ones in LA that had based their company as a product / ui + ux agency.

About 6 months ago, an agency called Mossio, changed their location to LA to pull in more leads. Totally makes sense, I would do the same thing to be honest. We actually tested changing our location to a few places. Including SF, NY, and Seattle to see if we could pull in leads from these locations even though we didn't have an office there. We landed 3 clients from each of these locations.

Once they made the change to LA, we would joke around the office. Like ," Oh we only need 1500 more followers to be back on top. A very difficult task unless you are publishing once a day, and every other day is a gif.

But then last week BOOM. UENO had recently opened an office here in LA. Couple things, the team at UENO crushes it. Hands down has the most talented team in the game. This is no way a bash at them. But we went from needing 1500 followers to be back on top to now needing 55k lol.

To be honest I don't really care.KF is pulling in the same amount of clients as we were previously on other platforms other than dribbble. Not much has changed on our revenue. We are still ranked 3 on Dribbble in LA. I will say a big part of those emails came also from being consistent on Dribbble.

About 6 months ago, I would never of mention any of this. I was pulling in more leads then we needed. It was great. But recently have slowed down my involvment in the agency world and have gone full time with private consulting and my own start up. So Im way more open sharing my thoughts on this subject.

This is more of a discussion on how the smaller designers that are just as talented can get noticed. Right now its impossible to find the small guys with a ton of talent on Dribbble, unless you know what your doing. There are a ton of designers that are super underrated on Dribbble, partly because they don't know how to run the game. They quickly get pushed away from Dribbble because every recruiter and their moms are hitting up these designers and offering terrible job offers/ salaries with spam.

Ueno Isnt the only company on Dribbble running game:

FocusLabs posted an article about how much they generated from Dribbble: http://focuslabllc.com/digest/high-fives-a-toast-to-dribbble

When we were on top we brought in about 300k from Dribbble in our first year, and that was because we were ranked 1 at one point. But those leads have taken a pretty huge dip. I couldn't imagine how many leads are brought in, when you have 50k+ followers.

So I guess I want to end this on a couple of questions:

How can we generate more leads for the little guy?

What ways could Dribbble even the playing field for location based skills?

Are there better ways for searching?

Also if you are a designer thats having a hard time finding leads there are a great amount of resources out there to get leads.

Check out my homies site: https://www.designinc.com/. Great place to put your money where your mouth is and land gigs. Im no way affiliated with them.

Also Dribbbble recently acquired Crew. This could be huge for lead generation, and Im really excited to see how this could be integrated with Dribbble.

If you have any questions about how I ran our agency through Dribbble or anything along these lines let me know. Im an open book on these topics. Also while I am at it, if you can help get me to 50k followers that would be dope! :P It still generates business to me to help consult on.

https://dribbble.com/knifeandfox

Agency site: www.knifeandfox.com

52 comments

  • Tait BrownTait Brown, over 6 years ago

    For a brief period of time, you reaped the rewards of being the incumbent. Now you have been supplanted by a super talented agency. This whole thing just reads like regular old 'business'. I'm not sure in what way it's Dribbble's responsibility to rectify anything here?

    EDIT: Also, 18 votes and no comments. Vote ring?

    42 points
    • Dirk HCM van BoxtelDirk HCM van Boxtel, over 6 years ago

      Vote ring, or perhaps a topic that affects a large portion of DN.

      Flagged it w/ the other mods. Will keep an eye on it.

      6 points
      • Chris MartinChris Martin, over 6 years ago

        You know the community is small when 18 upvotes gets your post flagged :/ I upvoted, don't have much to add but it looked like a conversation worth having.

        7 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      Theytookourjobs

      Totally just regular old business but with no regulations. The ability to just change location with out any build up and immediately reap the rewards of changing your location does not add up. Should be a time limit set or Dribbble should add the ability to add multiple locations. But to immediately just change your location and be ranked #1 in that location is pretty cray. This is just my opinion. Like I said in the post, I do not care about the business side of things. Im still making the same money. I didn't invest all my coins into Dribbble. Im just sticking up for the little guys trying to grab some work. I know when I first got my start in the field Dribbble was a great place to get going. But now its become really hard to play catch up when these teams / individuals are so far ahead of the game.

      As far as your comment about 18 votes and no comments. Bro chill. I wish I had 18 friends...

      Edit: 30+ friends

      14 points
    • Jim SilvermanJim Silverman, over 6 years ago

      I'm not sure in what way it's Dribbble's responsibility to rectify anything here?

      While there's obviously some sour grapes at play, I think the larger point is that Dribbble is a pretty bad product for lead gen if you aren't top dog. With the recent acquisition of Crew — who stated "our goal has always been to build a platform that changes the lives and trajectory for freelancers and makes hiring great people easier than ever" — it would appear that getting designers hired is a top priority for Dribbble's new owners.

      I think it's fair and constructive to ask the questions posed here.

      5 points
      • Mike Wilson, over 6 years ago

        Fully agree.

        I think ultimately this post gets at the false promise of what internet commerce was supposed to be. The official Silicon Valley ideology is that internet platforms are supposed to connect buyers and sellers in a more efficient way and create more wealth for everybody.

        However in practice, they often end up just collecting outsized power/influence/profits in the markets they operate while encouraging a commoditized race to the bottom. In the actual reality of an internet business, your users are in fact a commodity from which you extract value by using your power as a gatekeeper. For example, it makes a lot more sense for Crew to start fitting buyers/sellers into commoditized "service packages" because they'll make more money that way (and they seem to be moving in that direction from my experience). This hurts the independent designer however.

        For the powerful facilitators like Dribbble, if they actually care about the design communities they serve, they have a responsibility to design a platform with fair rules since they hold enough power to inadvertently change the marketplace and even pick winners and losers.

        0 points
  • Haraldur ThorleifssonHaraldur Thorleifsson, over 6 years ago

    Hey! My name is Halli. I am the design director (and founder) of Ueno.

    This is an interesting discussion. I owe a lot to Dribbble, if you are interested in that story you can read more here: https://medium.com/ueno/thank-you-dribbble-add8992a74dd?source=linkShare-b039c19e653c-1494343744

    I've spent a lot of time thinking about Dribbble and the fairness (or lack thereof) built into the system. To be honest I have not come up with a way to make the platform more fair but I'm sure they welcome any suggestions (I don't know the people at Dribbble personally but they seem to be smart and very open minded).

    We are opening a new office in LA as has been covered. You can read more on that here if you are interested : https://medium.com/ueno/ueno-goes-to-la-7c8259dd2fec?source=linkShare-b039c19e653c-1494344274

    If you read that, you'll see that we currently have one designer in the LA office. So in my mind we are tiny (not just there but overall) compered to the agencies we are competing against (which typically have 500-5000 employees compared to our total of 50).

    I therefor have a hard time seeing us as being the big player. One of our possibilites in competing against these huge agencies has been to use Dribbble. And I suspect that will continue to be the case.

    Ps. Knife + Fox does amazing work. Keep it up!

    21 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      Thanks for joining the discussion Haraldur. First off super stoked to have you guys in town. Justin is hands down my favorite product designers in LA. The main discussion like you said is the lack of fairness to other designers getting started on the platform. If I were in your shoes I would be doing the exact same thing. Hell Im still doing the same thing in other cases. But I think there should be a way to distribute the inbounds that Dribbble pulls in. At the end of the day it come to quality of work and the product you build. I know damn well you guys are crushing it. Ive looked up to you guys for years. Ive even taken some of the same strategy you guys have published and used them for my own personal agency. This is more of a discussion on how we can help people get more leads instead of all funneling into the top teams. At the end of the day Dribbble plays a huge part of my agency and yours. To be honest my agency has to decline more than 80% of the referrals cause the budgets are not big enough and im assuming you guys are in the same boat. But I know very well there are plenty of other teams that don't have as many followers that would be more than happy to take on these certain projects for these rates. I would love to see dribbble find a way to help clients identify a team/ individual that would be work best for their project.

      1 point
      • Haraldur ThorleifssonHaraldur Thorleifsson, over 6 years ago

        I'm not sure how this would work but as I said, from what I've seen from the Dribbble team I'm sure they would be very interested in concrete ideas on what they can improve. I would recommend sending them a note.

        Thanks! Halli

        0 points
      • Mike Wilson, over 6 years ago

        Just out of curiosity if you or Haraldur wouldn't mind answering--

        Since I'm coming from a background of working for large agencies who mostly get clients via high profile RFPs and corporate connections, what kind/size of companies are typically contacting agencies directly on Dribbble?

        I guess I'm surprised to hear there are clients that are plugged-in enough to the design industry to source their own vendors from industry sites. I have to imagine mostly start-ups?

        2 points
    • Cory MalnarickCory Malnarick, over 6 years ago

      I am a total outsider to the dribbble world, but from my humble perspective...

      Your LA office is small with only one designer, but where it matters – Dribbble status, apparently – you're the largest, best agency in LA. That I think is where the weirdness is and the fulcrum of this conversation.

      If an agency can slurp up all of the leads in a geo 'overnight,' I don't see it as a problem, per se, but it certainly raises eyebrows about how the industry works.

      I'd like to hear more on your thoughts on this.

      2 points
      • Haraldur ThorleifssonHaraldur Thorleifsson, over 6 years ago

        Is Dribbble where it matters? I love Dribbble and everything it has done for me but in the grand scheme of things having a big following on Dribbble is not what builds companies and it's very far from being the only place that drives leads.

        0 points
        • Cory MalnarickCory Malnarick, over 6 years ago

          That statement comes from the discussion here, not the world at large. The OP is all about how Ueno is killing Dribbble leads, so I spoke from that POV.

          0 points
  • Billy FrenchBilly French, over 6 years ago

    "This is not a hate letter to UENO in any way. This is more of an open discussion.”

    The title of the article is: “UENO is about to DESTROY my Dribbble Leads.”

    Sorry, but If this was a discussion, if you truly didn’t ‘care’ that UENO switched to the LA area, you wouldn’t drop their name throughout the post, and you’d have posed the article in less accusatory way.

    Here’s 3 titles (as questions) some of which you posed yourself, that would have come across better and actually felt like you sought discussion:

    • “Should Dribbble verify user locations?”
    • "How can we generate more leads for the little guy?”
    • "Are there better ways for searching Dribbble?"

    Instead, all I get from this post is someone who is upset they don’t have more followers than another business. Based on some of the commenting I’ve seen you do on the platform, you’re already “running the game” by posting the hollow comments many designer’s despise the Dribbble platform for. For Example

    Instead of “running the game” - consider trying what UENO is doing - running a business.

    20 points
    • Jason KirtleyJason Kirtley, over 6 years ago

      Well Said Billy. Sorry, Shea, your post comes across totally as a "woe is me"attitude and reeks of popularity envy. This is like being mad because your band lost the local talent show contest, and because of that, you are envious that you are not the next Metallica. Focus on doing good work and getting quality long term clients, not trophy numbers. Potential clients are going to look at the quality of work and find a connection to past work examples, not your thousands of followers.

      6 points
      • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

        There is no popularity envy here. Im talking directly about the ease of being able to switch location on a dime. I can easily switch my location to Seattle and be ranked 1 up there and pull in twice the amount of leads. Its not about follower account.

        0 points
        • Jason KirtleyJason Kirtley, over 6 years ago

          How exactly are you tracking ranking? If you search under Seattle, there are a lot of designers that have way more followers that you. How would you become ranked #1? Not following your logic. If I look at LA based on team rankings - you are still not in 2nd spot. More like 5th.

          1 point
          • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

            If you look at teams in Seattle #1 is ranked at 1643 followers. Knife and Fox has 2500 followers. We could easily switch our location and be ranked on top. https://dribbble.com/teams?sort=popular&location=seattle

            As far as LA, we are currently ranked 3 in LA. 2 of them are based in OC. If you change the radius to 10 miles it will update.

            0 points
            • Weston VierreggerWeston Vierregger, over 6 years ago

              Quick question, but... if you change your location to Seattle, and get a Seattle-based client from that, and they want to meet you in Seattle... how do you do that? Do you just fly out there and lie to your client about where your office is directly to their face?

              Gaming the system for leads like this is gross and unethical.

              5 points
              • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

                I actually fly to Seattle once a month for other clients up in that area. I would be up front and honest with the client. At this time though I have no plans on changing location.

                0 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      Absolutely I am posting hollow comments to drive traffic to my page lol. I have talked about doing this plenty of times before. You're not the first to call me out on this. Ive been doing this for the last 2 years. Im also not blaming UENO. They are using Dribbbles flaws to their business advantage. Just like I comment vague comments to drive traffic to my page.. Its marketing 101. Am I apart of the problem? Absolutely. But Im just playing the "Dribbble game" to drive business. If you are on Dribbble just to show off how pretty your designs are, you're an idiot. At the end of the day this is business. The topic was to discuss how we can avoid these hacks and make it even for everyone. I honestly do not care about the followers haha. Like I said Im not in this game as much as I use to. Its not my main source of income anymore. Im just starting conversations around a massive platform that many go to, to obtain business.

      1 point
      • Billy FrenchBilly French, over 6 years ago

        To quote you: *“Am I part of the problem? Absolutely” *

        So, you’ll admit to being a part of a problem, and you won’t change your tactics because “you’re just playing the dribbble game” — but when people who swap locations (ahem play the dribbble game) we’ve got an issue?

        You have a following that could allow you to be a positive design and business leader. You could be a voice for change if you truly felt it was impacting lesser known designers. You could could offer up advice & solutions for how the grow a following and land more gigs. Instead you are admitting to being a problem because the system isn’t stopping you, and managing to call anyone who posts to Dribbble because they’re proud of their work ‘an idiot’ all at once. Classy.

        8 points
        • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

          Like I said, I will probably change my teams location if it drives leads. Im working with the system. If people want to post thier shots on dribbble that they are proud of, more power to them. But at the end of the day this is our income, and I would hope designers are not just posting stuff because they are, " proud." Dribbble can be a great resource for job leads that I and many others have taken advantage of. Dribbble is very much along the lines of any social media platform. Many have found ways to market / promote and work their way to the top. Over time Instagram has had to update their guidelines so people were not over powering on these platforms. For example Instagress.com was recently blocked from Instagrams APIs. The king of all scripts. To be honest I think Instagram left them around for so long because they kept driving traffic back to their app. But over time it became over whelming of fake posts and irrelevant marketing. I don't label myself as a designers at all. I see this platform has a huge way to generate revenue to my company and thats how intend to use the platform. I do think however there are ways to even the battle field. I have no interest in labeling myself as the "design leader". I label myself as the dude thats been hacking at the system for years and now suggesting ways at how we can even it out.

          1 point
  • Aubrey JohnsonAubrey Johnson, over 6 years ago

    People competing for business!? On the internet!? Whaaaa?!!

    I'm kidding (for real I'm jk) because I am also FT solo freelancer and was also, until last year, in your/LA market. I know what it's like to sweat about income coming in and what it's like to compete in that specific market for the smaller startup ecosystem.

    This is indeed the game though. You pulled 300k from Dribbble alone. That isn't much to be bummed about and there's more work than we can all take on anyway. Dribbble is not responsible for making sure any of us does well in any given location.

    Ueno is great, all the flavor of the month agencies are. Fantasy, Razorfish (hell they were publicly traded pre .com crash), etc. They get the big budget projects and then companies find something new and fresh and they're out. Some live some die. It's been cycling for years and years.

    You'll be fine. Do rad work. Share it. Get creative! Keep grinding.

    Also fwiw - That's how Ueno and Halli started too. Dude was posting his badass work on his own from being a regular product designer at Google. Changed his personal account to the agency name. Hardly a silver spoon come up. They earned it.

    13 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      Agree with every point you have made. Literally not mad about losing the leads. Just want to open the discussion about how the people starting up with dribbble have a chance.

      1 point
      • Aubrey JohnsonAubrey Johnson, over 6 years ago

        They don't. Not the same chance that more established designers have anyway. This was also the case before Dribbble was around. How did small fry people compete with Fantasy (with slick flash websites and FWA awards, etc)? They kind of had even less of a chance. You either had to have gone to school at HyperIsland or RISD or like, be really really really amazing.

        Something else will come along and float the next generation of folks up. Necessity is the mother of invention. Dribbble is not a zero sum game.

        0 points
    • Art VandelayArt Vandelay, over 6 years ago

      Seems like maybe OP is "concerned" with gaming the system.

      1. Change your location.
      2. Post a lot because you have the access to volume.
      3. ...
      4. Profit
      3 points
      • Aubrey JohnsonAubrey Johnson, over 6 years ago

        "Change your location."

        "Post a lot because you have the access to volume."

        Ueno themselves addressed #1 (they are in LA actually, so no gaming there IMO).

        For #2 - uhhhh. yeah. that's why they have 55k followers and are mopping up the work out here. It's great work and it's high volume. If anything, they're gaming software design itself by beating the shit out of it with great work and an aggressive marketing strategy. This is some

        chatter going on.

        What's pretty funny is Shea is here possibly generating leads off a clickbait title. I commend the effort if that was at all intentional. You've gotta be clever to be competitive. I like Shea's stuff and I like Ueno too. Wishing these two the best in their duel for Dribbble "ranking"

        4 points
  • Luis La TorreLuis La Torre, over 6 years ago

    When there is agency drama, freelancers be like: drama

    10 points
  • Clark WimberlyClark Wimberly, over 6 years ago

    For anyone curious about Design Inc, since it was plugged: I tried it and saw zero value. Maybe they have picked up since then, but when I joined it was filled with low paying gigs (like, full sites for a couple hundred dollars low), you pay to apply to each, and I heard back from not a single person (I think I'm a pretty decent catch, especially at those prices, haha).

    A few months later I got an email from the founder with some kinda title like "Want to work for Google?" It was a mass email saying a recruiter had contacted and needed a content person. So he emailed the ENTIRE community over a single gig, with few details. Felt like a brag that Google had contacted him. The whole thing put a bad enough taste in my mouth that I thought I'd write this out in case anyone was thinking of giving it a try.

    I should add that I get a couple inquiries per month from dribbble, and the gig quality is almost never an issue. Usually it scheduling/semantics that don't work out, but the gigs almost always seem tasty.

    9 points
    • Connor NorvellConnor Norvell, over 6 years ago

      Same thing with design inc. too many designers who copy + paste messages to all the clients. wasn't worth the money for me, anywhere where designers become a commodity just doesn't work.

      3 points
  • Robin RaszkaRobin Raszka, over 6 years ago

    Seriously, this is so lame on so many levels.

    6 points
  • Mike Torosian, over 6 years ago

    Dribbble has helped a lot of agencies do extremely well, some of which you have named, but the community on Dribbble is flawed in many, many ways far beyond lead generation. Dribbble for me has become a place to just look at stuff, it's impossible to get any kind of constructive feedback and as a solo Dribbbler I'm not even on the radar. Think about that. UENO does great work, it's no surprise they have built a following, Haraldur was one of the first people I followed on Dribbble before UENO existed and he was building a following back then as well. My point is, the heavy hitters dwarf everyone else. FocusLab, for example, seems to make it a part of their flow to post regularly, and it shows, and they benefit from it. So, while you complain that UENO is dwarfing you, think about the fact that you are also dwarfing others.

    In a way, this kind of reads like a "woe is me" story but what you believe UENO is doing to your leads, Knife and Fox is also doing to others.

    6 points
  • Aaron Wears Many HatsAaron Wears Many Hats, over 6 years ago

    If you throw all of your lead-generation / revenue-generation eggs in the same 'free-online-portfolio-website' basket, you're gonna have a bad time.

    5 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      I agree to this, but I also know a lot of dudes making a ton of money from investing only into one platform. This is not just in Dribbble land. It goes for influencers on other platforms like Instagram. Most of the people that put all their eggs in one basket and rise to the top is something that can replaceable on multiple platforms. Lets say Dribbble Shuts down, users could easily use the same techniques that drove them traffic over on another platform.

      1 point
      • Aaron Wears Many HatsAaron Wears Many Hats, over 6 years ago

        They could, however there's a level of downtime between platform shifts that would be crippling to you if it was your primary source of income. I also feel that the people making big dollars from Instagram are either networking well on the outside and not reflecting the full story to their followers, or just riding a temporary wave of short-lived success..

        0 points
  • Shaun MoynihanShaun Moynihan, over 6 years ago

    Just so you're aware, Mossio has a distributed team which includes LA. With that said, it's a struggle but I have to say that many clients cannot afford a large agency like Ueno. Also, the work Knife & Fox is putting out is top notch and can fill the void well.

    Like you said, stay consistent and do quality work.

    4 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      For the last 6 months since they changed their location, there has not been one employee from that team living in LA. But thats not the point I am making. The point is that its too easy to just switch a trigger on location when individuals have spent time building up a reputation in those locations.

      As far as filling the void of price points. Oh totally! I know a bunch of agencies in LA that will be talking about how they are half the price of UENO. But there will for sure be a huge decrease from clients sliding into the DMs. Most people looking for talent to build their app hit the number one team. They contact that team and then realize they are far from their budget. At that point we can hope they come to the smaller agencies in the area. But most likey they could assume that all agencies are around this price point, and look to outsourcing or other solutions like giving up lol. But that just the way it is. Just want to talk about ways we can solve this. I have a few ideas that can open up more diverse way in setting something like this up. But I have a really good feeling dribbble is already working on it.

      2 points
  • Johan Ronsse, over 6 years ago

    This is the most important story of the day on DN? This is just prancing around trying to get some attention. I want this community to focus on design discussions and it pains me to see posts like this.

    If your lead generation is restricted to Dribbble maybe it's time to actually to broaden your lead sources.

    3 points
    • Mike Wilson, over 6 years ago

      This is the most interesting thing I've seen on DN in months. Quite frankly I see it very refreshing that someone is candidly discussing how they get leads for their business. Design is a business, and ignoring the business side of it will ensure designers continue to struggle with communicating their worth to both clients and employers.

      Would you really like to see more Sketch vs. Figma or Should Designers Code debates instead?

      3 points
  • John PJohn P, over 6 years ago

    Shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket that you don't own.

    Gonna be a bad day for a lot of people if Twitter eventually crumbles.

    My only advice is that you should have been learning to network properly off your own back during this time instead of relying on Dribbble leads that could dry up tomorrow.

    2 points
  • Cristian MoiseiCristian Moisei, over 6 years ago

    I think the problem a lot of us are empathising with is how if you're not big enough on dribbble (and let's face it, dribbble values fake redesigns and gifs far more than quality work), you will not get any leads. I've had a team profile on it for 3 years and haven't received a single lead (position 25 in my city).

    Because dribbble's ranking are not necessarily a good indicator of how good a designer is (not that we're that good), I never considered it a valuable lead gen tool.

    2 points
    • Shea LewisShea Lewis, over 6 years ago

      Yes! Most clients don't think this however.When they do realize its not a good indicator its too late unfortunately.

      0 points
  • Eythan D'AmicoEythan D'Amico, over 6 years ago

    Dribbble feed looks good, one follower down 49,999 to go!

    1 point
  • Alexander Ryan, over 6 years ago

    This is super interesting!

    I get $0 of business from Dribble because my profile is crap, but I do get business through my personal network. Big agencies get business through their networks and through features in AdWeek or something. IDEO gets their business by being featured in Business Week and Fast Company and winning awards and stuff. Boston Consulting and McKinsey get their jobs by being revolving doors to big-business executive jobs. Someone else gets their business by Dominating Dribble's leaderboard and getting the outsize share of traffic/leads.

    In the end these are all just ways to juice your reputation. I bet someone is out there now scheming how they will get that Dribble traffic from UENO :) ... the magic of capitalism!

    I would like to note that UENO and K+F both have very rad work!

    0 points
  • Andy LeverenzAndy Leverenz, over 6 years ago

    I'm not sure where to side on this. I can't say I value dribbble like I once used to. There's a lot of "design" but no real "design solutions" there. By that I mean a lot of the art you see is purely conceptual. In return, the public sees what is there and assumes anything is possible. Call me old fashioned though....

    I've been contacted a couple times for work inquires, but never saw success with it. I also don't utilize Dribbble like many other designers . The whole like/follower thing doesn't mean you're a better designer than the next guy.

    Ultimately, I think as anything with business it's about who you know. Some "nobodies" will leak through the cracks but most of the time you didn't get where you are without the help of someone/something else. i.e. the music industry. Once that "star" has had their 15 minutes, the next one comes along.

    0 points