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Craft CMS (craftcms.com)

over 5 years ago from , CEO @ Dreamten & GiveForms

35 comments

  • Zach ReedZach Reed, over 5 years ago

    Why would you pay for this when there are other alternatives that are free and open source?

    A few I can quickly think of:

    And I'm not trying to troll or anything. I genuinely am curious what makes this cms different than other free options out there?

    9 points
    • Philip Lester, over 5 years ago (edited over 5 years ago )

      Ask a handful of experienced designers/developers what is the absolute best CMS. The majority of them will likely tout Craft CMS.

      Read these for more:

      10 points
      • Zach ReedZach Reed, over 5 years ago

        What an awesomely pretentious answer. Haha This adds no value to what I'm asking. So CLEARLYYYYY you can't be an experienced designer/developer without claiming Craft is the "absolute best." haha What a joke.

        11 points
      • Hmphry xHmphry x, over 5 years ago

        Where I work, we split between Craft and ExpressionEngine. We've built 3-4 sites since last year on craft alone. I like Craft, but it's SO limiting. I always give the excuse that "it's new", "the community is working on making craft more powerful", "devs will open it up to more option", but it leaves a lot to be desired over Expression Engine.

        I haven't looked into Craft Commerce a lot, but it seems like to much of a hassle to get everyone on board with a $700 storefront that we can't customize the backend of.

        3 points
        • Ben S.Ben S., over 5 years ago

          Hey Hmphry! I'm genuinely interested about the limitations you're experiencing with Craft. Could you expand on that a little?

          1 point
          • Hmphry xHmphry x, over 5 years ago (edited over 5 years ago )

            Sure. It's mostly user system and backend customization. The user system is annoying. SOOOOOO many options, which is good, but some defaults would be great. The backend customization is non-existent. Sometimes, you want to tidy up a control panel for a client, and while craft is OODLES better than out of the box ExpressionEngine, ExpressionEngine's Safecracker is amazing. In the end, I guess customization is really the only part limiting.

            Other than that, craft is sort of slow and the database is generally much bigger.

            All that said, Craft is dope and I love working with it! I use it on my personal site(hmphry.com, although I am switching over to a custom node solution through no fault of craft), we use it at my job, so I have been working with craft a lot. Structure format is amazing. I love that Gmail email protocol out of the box with little work from me(outside adding my login). Matrix is, of course, a game changer, like it's always have been. Support is always delightful and helpful. Also, shout out to the super table and formerly plugins!

            2 points
            • Ben S.Ben S., 5 years ago (edited 5 years ago )

              Yeah, I definitely hear you on some of these points. I'd recommend posting any thoughts and ideas you have over at feedback.buildwithcraft.com if you haven't already, P&T are very open to hearing what the community thinks about how things could work better.

              The backend customization is non-existent.

              Ah, so Safecracker-equivilant type stuff, you mean? As opposed to customising the actual Control Panel?

              craft is sort of slow

              This comment seems to be popping up a bit as of late. While obviously not an option for everyone, upgrading to PHP7 makes a world of difference. Rockin' the {% cache %} tag as much as possible helps a lot too. Craft 3 will be crazy fast, but that won't be released for a while.

              Also, shout out to the super table and formerly plugins!

              Amen to that!

              Are you guys using EE3 already? If so, how's your experience been with that so far?

              1 point
              • Hmphry xHmphry x, 5 years ago

                Definitely, I'll do that!

                Ah, so Safecracker-equivilant type stuff, you mean? As opposed to customising the actual Control Panel?

                Both options would be nice :). I don't expect them to roll out a safe cracker solution anytime soon, as their backend is very nice, but some people just want that option. For instance, I have no clue on how to run a community with craft(which I guess it isn't really the purpose in the mind of craft, but it'd be nice).

                This comment seems to be popping up a bit as of late. While obviously not an option for everyone, upgrading to PHP7 makes a world of difference. Rockin' the {% cache %} tag as much as possible helps a lot too. Craft 3 will be crazy fast, but that won't be released for a while.

                That's good to hear. I use the cache on a few sites, and I have really had to preach the importance of efficient HTML to the team, but yeah, it can be sluggish on requests over 40(It was a really weird project). I am now excited for craft 3.lol

                I haven't gotten me mitts on EE3 yet. I've been on craft projects since pretty much last year. Working on a revisit of an EE project now, but it's still EE2.x

                0 points
      • Simon EvansSimon Evans, over 5 years ago

        I'd have to disagree with you there, but I suppose it depends on who you're talking to.

        I really like Craft, however that doesn't mean it's the best choice for every project.

        1 point
      • Ix TechauIx Techau, over 5 years ago

        It always seems to me that people who complain about Wordpress being "limited" or "too specific" actually have no clue how to develop using Wordpress. I don't use WP anymore since I learned Rails, but when I used WP I built a whole range of sites...from blogs to ecommerce to custom solutions. Not a problem.

        2 points
    • Marc Olivier LapierreMarc Olivier Lapierre, over 5 years ago

      This podcast, especially episode 4 ("Why Craft?" — Part I: The Business Case) is really informative on why you would choose Craft over other CMS like Wordpress.

      3 points
    • James CroweJames Crowe, over 5 years ago

      Because it's actually a CMS. Wordpress != CMS. It just tries to act like it is.

      2 points
    • Ben S.Ben S., over 5 years ago

      At the end of the day it really comes down to the requirements of a project. WordPress is fundamentally blogging software. It can be used for full-fledged sites, but multiple third-party plugins are usually required to achieve this. That's not ideal. Craft makes no assumptions about your content, so you can pretty much build whatever the hell you want right out of the box.

      I get genuinely excited about developing with Craft, and clients love using it to manage their content, which means they actually do manage their content. That's huge.

      Here are a couple of places to start reading about the differences between Craft and Wordpress:

      Craft does have a free Personal license, but that's only to be used for "personal sites built by and for the developer." I'm not familiar with Cockpit, but it looks interesting! Obviously there's a multitude of other options too, but once again, it's all about choosing the right tool for the job.

      Oh, and one last thing.. the support. My god, the support. Brandon, Brad and the rest of the team at Pixel & Tonic know a thing or two about making their customers happy.

      4 points
    • Leslie Camacho, over 5 years ago

      Hi Zach,

      Let's just establish that a solid freelancer/team can do amazing things with just about any modern CMS today, free or paid. Last I checked there are over 400+ options when it comes to a "CMS" ranging in price from free to well into the 7 figures (yes, really).

      For me, I find that Craft is a great fit for projects that need customized publishing workflows, a lot of dynamic content, and the design needs call for something considerably more than a "theme" can offer. I find its also a good fit for mid-sized projects where the client has established real business value that needs the backing of modern software but doesn't need/want (or simply can't afford) an "enterprise" solution (think projects in the $45k - $125k range). In short, they have real money they need to invest and they need room to grow.

      While its true that many people love WP for this, WP is not specifically designed for this, especially a tailored "author experience." In cases where clients have specific business value in such things, like the Associated Press for example, they will save thousands of dollars in production hours over the course of the year with a tool like Craft. You could probably build the equivalent in something like WordPress, but its unlikely you could do it without breaking the upgrade path, using a number of 3rd party plugins, introducing security risks, and increasing the size of the code base you have to maintain and the number of vendors you have to work with to keep the system stable.

      The main thing about Author Experience in a professional sense is to keep, as much as possible, a 1-to-1 relationship with what a thing does and what you call it. The more you take a tool like WordPress and customize it, the more you lose this 1-to-1 relationship. The outcome of this is increased training time, increased errors in production, and decreased output. The more people responsible for content on a site, the more true this becomes.

      Because Craft is built from the ground up to have a 1-to-1 relationship (and yes, it sometimes falls short of this goal), it means that clients often don't have to be trained on it because it is obvious how it works from start to finish if we've done our job right. I realize this may come off as a bit esoteric but it gets practical really fast on more complex builds.

      Plus, to get official support from WordPress you need WordPress VIP, which is an entirely different price/value proposition. Support is standard with Craft, though granted it is not "enterprise."

      This isn't because WordPress is bad, it is an incredible CMS in its own right (I use it myself as well, along with ExpressionEngine). It's because WP isn't built specifically for these use cases.The cost of Craft is laughable in ratio to the size of the client's budget and the value it brings to a project, so spending $300 or $1000 on it is a no-brainer if its a good fit. And if something does go wrong, I know exactly who to contact and what to expect support wise. I gladly pay for that peace of mind.

      To bring the point home, on a project that is $45,000 the cost of a Craft Pro license is .67% of the total budget ($300). The value I get for spending less than 1% of the project budget is unbelievable.

      Other solutions bring similar peace of mind as well (ModX, ExpressionEngine, etc...) so there are options and a lot of it is certainly subjective. But there are clear use cases where Craft is the best tool for clients and I love it for that.

      6 points
  • Philip Lester, over 5 years ago (edited over 5 years ago )

    We designed and developed the new Craft CMS home page in an ultra fast 1 week sprint to coincide with the launch of Pixel & Tonic's Craft Commerce (https://craftcommerce.com). Go check it out!

    5 points
  • Marc Olivier LapierreMarc Olivier Lapierre, over 5 years ago

    Beautiful. Can't wait to dive in all the new stuff from this update. Some friends and coworkers started calling me the "Craft Preacher", I guess I like to express my love for Craft a bit too much.

    2 points
  • Michael Walsh, over 5 years ago

    Coming from MODX I asked the same thing, why pay for a CMS when there are free ones that seem plenty good enough? After looking into Craft in detail we soon realised we could deliver a far better website and editor user experience with Craft. We'd save time (and therefore money for our clients) building the site by using Craft so that would more than cover the cost of the license fee. The savings continue after a project has launched, as updating Craft is super easy and it continues to impress every time we have to add features and functionality to existing Craft projects. It's also worth mentioning that Craft has recently made their free license even more generous so using Craft in some instances won't even attract a cost.

    0 points
  • Rick LanceeRick Lancee, over 5 years ago (edited over 5 years ago )

    The homepage doesn't tell me anything about what craft actually is and does.

    Ps. The nav animation on mobile is laggy.

    0 points
  • Derryl OnyoDerryl Onyo, over 5 years ago

    I'm a writer and I'd love to do a tutorial on this. Are there any other articles out there on Craft CMS?

    0 points