20 comments

  • Chris Basey, 4 years ago

    Are we really still talking about this? How about designers use the tool that they think best suits their needs, the tool that enables them to do their job most effectively. If that's photoshop (it still is for me) or Sketch (my team is half photoshop half sketch) then that's fine too. Obviously there are issues with that and so our companies tool of choice for collaborative projects is PS. If you own the project you can use what you want.

    This is as boring as PC vs Mac now

    27 points
    • Hans van de Bruggen, 4 years ago

      Hey man! Welcome to DN.

      Designers should absolutely use the tools that are right for them. If Photoshop does it for you, by all means, use Photoshop. This was written out of a desire to articulate more clearly how this suite of powerful and capable tools were failing to meet my needs as one of Adobe's target users. It's one thing to say "this doesn't work" and another to try to figure out why—going beyond "fix it" to specific suggestions. Furthermore, exploring how one set of products was failing me gave me insights on how to better critique the products I'm building. Hopefully, it can do the same for others.

      3 points
  • Charles PearsonCharles Pearson, 4 years ago

    I left a note in your piece Hans, but yes, Adobe is listening! I will say that at first I cringed when I saw your post. There's a fair number of these pieces, and my job as a researcher working on Photoshop/ Design Space is to read and digest them. There's a lot of criticism, and it can be hard, tiring. The criticism and frustration is understandable and warranted -- but I found your piece especially constructive. Its a solid post, with a nice breakdown of where your needs and Adobe tools don't align. I'm really glad you put it out there.

    Let me just say that there's a lot happening at Adobe -- some of which is public, and some of which is not. We are working hard though to address current design needs and workflows. At some point we'll be having a different conversation. If you ever want to chat ping me at cpearson@adobe.com -- that offer is open to all on DN. Saludos!

    12 points
    • Hans van de Bruggen, 4 years ago

      Hey Charles! Thanks for chiming in. I loved your article on the anthropological work you did for the Photoshop team, and in many ways it inspired me to write this article. Frankly, I think that work has helped lead to some of the strongest steps Adobe has taken to get back on track for design-for-screens, but I have some concerns it's still being held back by corporate cautiousness. Namely, you've identified a need for a tool like Design Space, yet have retreated to bundling it inside another application instead of letting it stand on its own. This approach asks me to open a heavy tool for your answer to a light tool I already have, and worse, it's a way of hedging your bets that communicates a lack of confidence in the product.

      People have told me "you don't have to use it if you don't like it", and that's exactly the point. There are other viable options on the market that don't carry the same disadvantages Adobe products currently do. I also believe that Adobe has an incredibly talented team, yet as a large company it has inherent difficulty hearing from its users. I'm a huge believer in tools, and get especially enthusiastic about the greater social impact good tools can have when they are used by many, as Adobe products are. I do wish you the best of luck in this, and I wouldn't have written this article, otherwise.

      2 points
  • John PJohn P, 4 years ago

    as a UX Designer

    Stopped reading there

    4 points
    • Hans van de Bruggen, 4 years ago

      Go on?

      0 points
      • Dean HaydenDean Hayden, 4 years ago

        I was going to raise this point; UX designers shouldn't worry about high definition designs and with that in mind Adobe products are overkill. UI designers may need a bit more but probably can use other products.

        A designer who focuses solely on aesthetics for print and screen will probably need the full toolset and power of Adobe CC.

        I use Sketch and have little beef with it. Like Adobe products it's not without its faults (much like all software).

        The cost and ownership argument is nonsense as you don't own software you purchase a license. If you rely on Adobe CC to make a living and question its "high" monthly cost then you are doing something very wrong.

        4 points
        • Hans van de Bruggen, 4 years ago

          The cost and ownership argument is nonsense as you don't own software you purchase a license. If you rely on Adobe CC to make a living and question its "high" monthly cost then you are doing something very wrong.

          Totally agreed. It's not an argument I've made.

          0 points
      • John PJohn P, 4 years ago

        Adobe suite isn't that valuable to UX designers to begin with.

        Call me when someone who's disciplines include design/motion graphics/illustration can switch.

        4 points
        • Account deleted 4 years ago (edited 4 years ago )

          This. But also as someone who fits your description i'd like to add that I do not give 2 shits what my peers or anyone's tools are as long as in the end, the work you are making is amazing. For me it's all about the concept, design and execution. Tools are not as powerful as a good idea.

          1 point
          • John PJohn P, 4 years ago

            Didn't say it was but it starts to matter when you have to collaborate with others.

            0 points
  • Tony GinesTony Gines, 4 years ago

    I think this sort of testimonial is healthy discussion. There are lots of designers that are curious about taking the leap and seeing how others have handled the change may be reassuring to them. There are also tons of web design teachers and professors out there teaching all of the new-generation designers to use old methods. It's healthy to keep this conversation going to constantly question the status quo.

    4 points
    • Chris Basey, 4 years ago

      But it's not a healthy discussion. It's repetitive and reductive. Sketch is awesome, adobe is terrible. Boooooo adobe. There's no discussion, just an endless stream of articles, all saying the same thing. It's not showing balance in any way shape or form. It's teaching designers that the only way to work and be one of the 'cool kids' is to use sketch. Yeah, it's a great product. Bit buggy here and there but definitely solid. as is Photoshop. Methods have zero relevancy to the tools you use. They are just that, tools. You can apply whatever methodology you want using any of the products out there.

      I'm just bored of the constant stream of articles that say the exact same thing, and sneery snobbery of people who are bigging up whichever product they find the best (this is usually sketch users to be fair). Do work to the best of your ability and find the tool that facilitates that process the best.

      3 points
      • Tony GinesTony Gines, 4 years ago (edited 4 years ago )

        Discussion is, by nature, back and forth. The subject matter may seem repetitive, but both products continue to evolve. Choosing winners or losers is not the point of the discussion. The point is to see where each are at right now and to see which one is becoming better or worse. If we were to have ended these discussions a year ago, Sketch would be dead and Adobe would have no reason to reflect on itself.

        I disagree with your last statement. The dismissive attitude of "do whatever you feel like and shut the hell up about it" isn't providing anything positive to the industry. We should all be constantly talking about what's working, what's not, and keeping all of our colleagues in the loop.

        5 points
  • Filipe FigueiredoFilipe Figueiredo, 4 years ago

    But... Edge Animate is Adobe?

    2 points
    • Hans van de Bruggen, 4 years ago

      It is! Like Flash, it's a good animation tool, but it's not a good prototyping tool, and Adobe has yet to release a compelling option yet.

      0 points
  • Mario S, 4 years ago

    I love to read peoples experience in using different tools, particularly when the purpose is to keep learning and diversify the skills. It is unfortunate though that most of these new tools work great on one ecosystem only. Mac.

    Which is fine, if you work alone or work with/for Apple-only users.

    I move across 3 ecosystems, Mac, Windows and Linux, and as much as I like Sketch, it doesn't work anywhere else. I can't keep the workflow with non-sketch users, etc...

    1 point
    • James Young, 4 years ago

      I think this is an important thing people aren't always thinking about when they evaluate and promote design tools. I've recently ditched Mac and gone back to Windows and Sketch is one tool I'll definitely miss as it filled that gap Fireworks sadly left (Adobe, as you're listening .... WHYYYYYYYYY!!!???!!!!).

      Multi discipline teams who don't all have the same setup will at least benefit from Adobe being available on whatever they're running rather than being sent a useless .sketch file or something.

      0 points
  • Jeff EscalanteJeff Escalante, 4 years ago

    So conflict aside, I just want to see if any photographers out there have found a better solution than Lightroom. I've been looking everywhere for one, but have been unable to find one.

    Related, Sketch now ties me to Mac. I couldn't switch to windows or chromeos because I'm dependent on Sketch, and they will never build for anything other than mac. This feels a little limiting, honestly.

    0 points