10 comments

  • Nathan Huening, over 6 years ago

    This may be of more interest to front-end developers but there are quite a lot of us here! Also, since Craft is the best-designed CMS -- and on the short list for best CMS, period -- other designers may be interested.

    1 point
  • Nathan Huening, over 6 years ago

    Re: Wordpress's absurdity, I'll just leave this here:

    http://codex.wordpress.org/File:wp-template-hierarchy.jpg

    0 points
  • Mitchell Knight, over 6 years ago (edited over 6 years ago )

    ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

    0 points
    • Dan CoatesDan Coates, over 6 years ago

      Because Wordpress isn't even close to being a good CMS. Or a CMS at all for that matter. I haven't used Craft but I would happily bill a client $300 if it works as well as it says it does. You'd easily save that much time by not wrangling wordpress to work with complex data.

      2 points
      • David DarnesDavid Darnes, over 6 years ago

        I don't agree that WordPress isn't a good CMS, it certainly does the job. However yes, I bet Craft would wipe the floor with it in terms of dedication to site content management. Thats the difference between a CMS that was born from a blogging engine and a CMS that was born to be a CMS.

        0 points
    • Mitch WarrenMitch Warren, over 6 years ago

      I agree. It's a lot of money to spend when there are so many free open source alternatives that will probably outlast Craft. I'm sure it's great now, but how long until it fades away like Expression Engine?

      1 point
      • Nathan Huening, over 6 years ago
        1. $300 only for Pro, which is not necessary in most cases. Out of the last 5 projects I used with Craft, only 2 required paid versions.

        2. I guess we have different ideas of what "a lot of money to spend" is for professional web work. That's maybe 1/3 of our typical photography budget -- and this is the software that powers the entire site we're talking about. $300 is only a lot if you're making $2000 websites, so in that respect, you do have to be mindful of budget. But I would gladly pay $300 out of my own pocket every time if it meant I could deliver a better product in less time, which is what Craft allows me to do. (That's maybe 3 billable hours, which is easily saved by avoiding Wordpress.)

        3. "Sure it's great now" -- why would you use mediocre now in any of your tools? And say it does fade -- you and your client still get 5+ years of superior software and experience.

        0 points
        • Mitch WarrenMitch Warren, over 6 years ago

          Fair enough! You make good points. Recently I've been building a lot of smaller websites in the $2-5K range. $300 is a rather large slice of the pie.

          Out of curiosity, are you building your websites as a freelancer? If so, what price range are you charging in?

          0 points
          • Nathan Huening, over 6 years ago

            Whoa! A civil discussion on an internet forum? Will wonders never cease? ;)

            Even for those smaller projects, why can't you just expense the client? If you took your car to a mechanic to replace your alternator, you wouldn't expect him to pay for it, would you? "Parts" for websites means CMS license, web hosting, domain registration, font license, plugins, stock photos, commissioned photos, illustrations, whatever... those are all line item expenses independent of the "Labor" you get paid -- and is required -- to make it happen. (Please tell me you're not paying for those out of your own pocket.)

            (That said, even the $300 Craft license is overkill -- the $200 will get you there 95% of the time -- rarely do clients require more than a single administrative login).

            Now, the client ultimately gets to decide what s/he wants to pay for: maybe no need for Proxima Nova, use standard Verdana; no need for WebFaction, so use GoDaddy (actually, bad example, since WebFaction is only $10/month); no need for Craft, use Wordpress. But at our firm, if a client wants Wordpress, we charge more for the Labor because it's such an awful pain in the ass to work with.

            I want to fetch multiple sets of entries from the db in a single template and that's not allowed? I have to hack "The Loop" by "rewinding" it? No template parser, you want me to write raw PHP in my templates? No native multi-environment config -- how am I supposed to deploy from local to staging to production? Wordpress to me is like a bad joke played on developers trapped by Stockholm Syndrome.

            But anywho, yeah, my firm doesn't really do projects under $10k -- we don't compete in that market. For my personal freelance work, I don't really do projects less than, say, $4500. If it's less than that, the client doesn't need custom work -- they need a $1500 half day consult with Squarespace.

            0 points
    • Nathan Huening, over 6 years ago

      Because a) Wordpress doesn't have even close to Craft's capabilities and b) you get what you pay for.

      Sorry to say but Wordpress is just awful software -- poorly conceived and architected around kludges and hacks to do even basic things.

      Only WP fans I know of are those who haven't built with anything else ;)

      0 points