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A challenge to all DN users

over 4 years ago from , front-end design/shopify optimization

I'm challenging myself and all other DN users to invite one of your female designer friends to the site.

http://blog.pexels.com/what-happens-when-youre-1-on-designer-news/

It says the Designer News user base is composed of: Male - 91.2% Female - 8.8% Wow!

That doesn't seem right, and I imagine it's not an accurate representation of the global design community.

So let's all invite one (or more) of our female design friends to join Designer News.

95 comments

  • Bennett WongBennett Wong, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    Who should you invite to DN?

    a) A male

    b) A female

    c) Someone who is interested in design news


    ɔ :ɹǝʍsuɐ ʇɔǝɹɹoɔ

    91 points
    • Diana Lopez, over 4 years ago

      What is exclusionary about "try to invite women"? You can invite men too. All this topic is saying is try to make a point to invite a woman to balance out the numbers.

      33 points
      • Crampa ...Crampa ..., over 4 years ago

        You're saying we should invite women to balance out the numbers. Seems unnatural and forced.

        23 points
        • Ryan RushingRyan Rushing, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

          Unnatural and forced only for those who don't know any designers who are women.

          14 points
        • Klare FrankKlare Frank, over 4 years ago

          People who don't want to sign up won't. It's more about giving the option to a wider range of people. Nothing forced about that.

          6 points
    • Anna NiessAnna Niess, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

      I regularly tell both men and women about DN if I think they are interested. It seems you are missing the point.

      Consider how women who speak up are treated in online communities, and you have you answer in why so few women are on Designer News. Message boards, comments sections, and social media can be pretty terrifying places for women.

      The great thing is, DN is one of the few accepting and professional forums I've ever seen. Way more women should be involved and contributing to this place. It's an incredible resource as is, and women can bring more diverse content and points of view that we can all benefit from.

      Dismissing the absence of women in design and technology fields as not a problem, or not something that doesn't need to be addressed... is exactly the problem.

      37 points
      • Jonathan ShariatJonathan Shariat, over 4 years ago

        Exactly, the population is 50-50 so if theres less than that we should be asking why. More so if it doesn't match the number currently in our industry.

        But when its as little as 8%, we should worry that voices our community needs, perspectives our community needs, aren't getting enough representation.

        So we should ask why, we should invite them. Sure invite everyone, but obviously that hasn't reached enough women, so we should go out of our way to invite a few.

        17 points
      • Stephanie WalterStephanie Walter, over 4 years ago

        "Message boards, comments sections, and social media can be pretty terrifying places for women." => As a female designer who comments on DN and other social networks, I'd like to know why you think it's terrifying for us. Is there any kind of study ? I'd be really interested in.

        11 points
    • Clay MacTavishClay MacTavish, over 4 years ago

      C.

      2 points
    • Rachel WhiteRachel White, over 4 years ago

      He didn't say invite women just for the sake of inviting women.

      He said designers who are women, who we can all assume would be interested in news for designers.

      8 points
    • Simon Vansintjan, over 4 years ago

      It's this exact same conversation that is happening in the rest of the tech world. Guess what? You're wrong when it comes to this.

      Sure, all things being equal it would make sense to prefer to invite "people interested in design". But all things aren't equal - the statistics clearly show this. They show this in work environments, they show this in pay rates, they show this in who's taking care of children, etc.

      I personally doubt that it's because there's less women interested in design news. Design doesn't strike me as a classically unequally distributed profession. My personal experience is counter to this (though I am a man, I don't really know). I don't think the fault lies with women (as seems to be the implication of this response).

      So then the next step is to examine in our community what is actually happening, and why there is such an imbalance. Why are there more men on Designer News? Is it because it's an unsafe environment? Is it because they feel like they're excluded? Is it because they have less time?

      Maybe the answer is not to invite more women to designer news. I don't think the case is that they're not hearing about it. Maybe the answer is to talk to the women who were here and left. Why did they leave? Why aren't they coming back? Maybe it's time for Designer News to have a critical examination of itself before it goes down the Reddit and HackerNews trajectories.

      0 points
  • Joel CalifaJoel Califa, over 4 years ago

    I am absolutely for this and don't understand the pushback from the men in this thread. If you believe in equality, you believe in diversity, and the fact is that the lack of women here inherently makes it harder for women to join.

    Going to invite 10 female designer friends asap.

    39 points
    • John LeschinskiJohn Leschinski, over 4 years ago

      I would imagine the pushback is from people who see equality of opportunity, not result, as truly egalitarian. That designers should be invited to DN, not a specific subset of designers to force an equality in statistics.

      2 points
  • Jonathan CutrellJonathan Cutrell, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    Perhaps the real question here is why.

    Don't post ignorantly in one direction or the other; ask yourself why this might be the case.

    There are many possible answers.

    1. It is representative of the population of designers. (Nope, probably not that one.)
    2. It is representative of the population of designers that are interested in participating on DN. (Possible.)
    3. It is representative of the population of designers that have heard of DN. (Possible.)
    4. It is representative of the population of designers that want to be a part of DN. (Possible.)
    5. Google Analytics seriously miscalculated. (Possible.)
    6. Females generally didn't click on that particular story. (Possible.)
    7. The men on DN knowingly propagate a boys club atmosphere that discourages women from participating. (Possible, but from what I expect, not probable.)
    8. The men on DN unknowingly propagate a boys club atmosphere that discourages women from participating. (Possible, and I'd say more probable than #6.)

    In any case, don't fight over it. If it's broken, let's figure out why. If it's not, then take it as a challenge to invite more females, but only if they actually would make great members of DN. And be mindful not to make that determination based on their gender. Or age. Or race. Or sexual orientation. Or...

    You get the idea. Equality always wins, but just because stats point to a potential equality issue doesn't mean there absolutely is one, and also doesn't mean there absolutely isn't one. Act smarter.

    33 points
  • Chantal JandardChantal Jandard, over 4 years ago

    Why is this such a big kafuffle? Seriously? The post literally is just saying, "Hey, the numbers on DN probably aren't reflective of the actual design community. Let's start changing that. Invite a designer gal or two."

    The post does not say the men here suck, it does not say don't invite other minorities, it does not say we should invite any girl under the sun for the sake of numbers, it's not saying more women are the only ways we should try to diversify more. It's just looking to make the community truer to the real design population.

    I think people are reading into the objectives a wee bit too deeply. (Also, fun fact kids. I'm a female designer and I only found DN because a guy introduced me to the Panda chrome extension a few weeks back. I've loved this site ever since as a lurker, but wow, has this thread ever turned me off the community.)

    31 points
    • Matt SoriaMatt Soria, over 4 years ago

      +1,000,000

      2 points
    • Jeff French, over 4 years ago

      I really hope this thread hasn't turned you off from DN entirely. There will unfortunately always (or often?) be those who don't welcome change within a group, but as many others here have opined, there is a much stronger desire to see this 'community' be representative of a larger and more diverse population of designers. It's our job then to help maintain and support that diversity, and make sure that a less enlightened minority doesn't ruin this place for everyone else.

      1 point
  • Millie LinMillie Lin, over 4 years ago

    Hey, here, female designer shakes her hands :D

    22 points
  • Paul DessertPaul Dessert, over 4 years ago

    Using that logic we should invite women who use IE on tablets or windows based machines. Because, you know, that segment is under represented. Bonus points if they are non English speakers.

    21 points
    • Diana Lopez, over 4 years ago

      What you're using here isn't logic so...

      18 points
      • Paul DessertPaul Dessert, over 4 years ago

        Kinda the point...

        12 points
        • Matt SoriaMatt Soria, over 4 years ago

          I think you might be missing the point Paul. What the poster is suggesting is that female designers, as people, are part of the design community at large and are clearly under represented in this little online design community, which makes a difference if we would like this digital community to reflect reality.

          Your analogy is suggesting that the tools people use are just as valid of a trait as personal identity and experience, which is of course ridiculous. I don't think it's too farfetched to believe that the gender in which someone identifies with will effect and influence their life and outlook in ways that are far more profound than what browser they currently use — it seems a bit rude to suggest that it as trivial as that.

          14 points
          • Surat Hat YaiSurat Hat Yai, over 4 years ago

            No. He got the point better than you did. DN is not something compulsory. If females don't sign up that doesn't mean we're all misogynists. They'll sign up when they'll sign up. We don't have to invite more people of "a category" just because the category exists. What's next? African cross-gender designers living in Eastern Europe?

            12 points
            • Matt SoriaMatt Soria, over 4 years ago

              Well apparently we all think we get the point and everyone else doesn't , haha, but I think you're missing it in the same way as Paul. The poster didn't make any suggestions to say we're all a bunch of misogynists because of the way the stats look here, but simply offered up a really quite friendly and non-accusational way that we might be able to help gain some community members that seem to be under-represented currently. The poster never suggested it was your fault or my fault, or even DN's fault that the numbers are the way they are, the poster just suggested a way in which we could help round out and strengthen our community. If you felt accused by the post then I think you too might have missed the point, or maybe misread it.

              I think the more diverse the group of people contributing to DN the better it will be — having access to perspectives from people of different backgrounds and experiences than our own is literally the number one by a long shot reason any of us choose to participate in a community forum like this (otherwise I'd just belong to Matt Soria news and you'd just belong to Surat Hat Yai news), so I'd love there to be more African cross-gender designers living in Eastern Europe, but the fact remains that this community is very disproportionately male, and this particular person was kind and brave enough to point that out and make an unassuming suggestion that might help even out that disproportion, and based on your comment and many others that have been made, it seems like these types of suggestions that aim to strengthen and broaden our community, aren't welcome by many here — that's not any kind of community I'd want to be a part of!

              16 points
  • Gabriel LovatoGabriel Lovato, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    While it would seem surprising for a design site to have so little women, it's much less so if you take DN for what it actually is : a tech site. The quantity of links in common with Hacker News attests to that. And the tech industry has a problem when it comes to the quantity and representation of women in its workforce. There's a plethora of articles and blog posts and stats about that one google search away.

    There's also a possibility the stats are wrong : if the gender information comes from analysis of cookie history, they may be assuming people to be male because they are interested in design and tech. This could be a case of a sexist algorithm.

    For those saying "we should just invite people who are interested, not just women", ask yourself : Do you know any women designers? Are there any at the place your work? Or among your friends? Yes? Good, invite them to DN right now. No? Then ask yourself why is that...

    17 points
  • Diana Lopez, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    Yes. I like this challenge, thank you. I don't understand why the other comments in this topic are arguing for keeping the status quo. Ok? Do y'all think inviting more women is bad for DN somehow? I can see why a woman wouldn't want to join DN based on these comments.

    17 points
    • Paul DessertPaul Dessert, over 4 years ago

      I don't think anyone is arguing against it. I think (myself included) people are fed up the with the idea that the lack of a penis is a disadvantage.

      Please, invite others to DN. Don't do it JUST because they are female. Seriously, women doesn't this offend you? (Honest question)

      7 points
      • Diana Lopez, over 4 years ago

        No, why would it offend me? I have felt that tiny "ok everyone here is a man... maybe I don't belong here" feeling often in my career and having more women around would help with that. I'm not saying DON'T invite men, I'm saying include women TOO.

        37 points
        • Joel CalifaJoel Califa, over 4 years ago

          This.

          2 points
        • John LeschinskiJohn Leschinski, over 4 years ago

          Are you suggesting no one is including women? That the community is excluding them?

          1 point
          • Anna NiessAnna Niess, over 4 years ago

            There is overwhelming evidence in this post that suggests the DN community does not make an effort to be inclusive of the female perspective, or see gender equality as a priority. Prove me wrong.

            3 points
            • John LeschinskiJohn Leschinski, over 4 years ago

              The community seems to be saying they want to be inclusive to designers, which includes many subsets of people including women, but that focusing on one group isn't equality.

              0 points
      • Sarah LiSarah Li, over 4 years ago

        Wait...are you seriously saying that being a woman ISN'T a disadvantage?

        14 points
      • Sam GoldSam Gold, over 4 years ago

        I can hear what you're saying, and in fact that is a common division among women, one that divides the community even further. I went to the Grace Hopper Conference for Women in Computing last year and found that some of my female coworkers felt that the conference just propagated the issue--that even having a conference in the first place to support women suggests that women need that support. However, I've been to conferences where I'm maybe one of five or six women TOTAL, and even though it seems like that might not have any impact studies (and my personal experience) show that it really does (these are a quick google away so I won't clog this with links). The issue is insidious and therefore very easy to miss, but it really does exist. I don't like to think of being a woman as a 'disadvantage' and i don't really think the initial post said that, but being a woman makes certain things more challenging, and the problem doesn't seem to be in having competent ideas it's in having them heard:

        http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2014/02/06/272646267/how-the-meritocracy-myth-affects-women-in-technology

        1 point
  • Klare FrankKlare Frank, over 4 years ago

    The negative attitude and pushback on this post is why more women aren't joining and adding to the community.

    Let's be more inclusive, ok?

    16 points
  • Varun VachharVarun Vachhar, over 4 years ago

    sigh...seriously? I was under the misconception that the DN community was not this biased. If you work in the tech and design industry and do not see the crap that women have to deal with on a day to day basis then you must be blind.

    Women have an extremely hard time participating in most online communities. So, yes we definitely need initiatives such as this.

    Stop trying to be a part of the problem instead of trying to solve it.

    14 points
    • Katie MacoyKatie Macoy, over 4 years ago

      Hi Varun! :) Thanks for fighting the good fight. I was pretty astonished to read what most of this thread is comprised of.

      1 point
  • Tommy SadlerTommy Sadler, over 4 years ago

    Seems to me like if female designers were interested in joining the site, they would've done it already. It's not that hard to do in all honesty. There's no need to invite women just to balance out the numbers. If they're interested, they'll come on their own.

    11 points
  • Antonio PratasAntonio Pratas, over 4 years ago

    The percentage of users from 45-55 is even smaller, so I challenge everyone to invite one (or more) of our 45-55 year old design friends to join Designer News.

    ...but really, I have a lot of designer friends, most of them are male, but it probably sits in a healthy 60%/40% split of genders. I believe that my male friends are more interested in online communities than my female friends, and I don't know if its for fear of speaking up or just lack of general interest in being an active part of discussions.

    As always, it depends on the person, and we've seen a lot of female designers around leading companies (facebook's Julie Zhuo is a favorite), writing and making great work out there, so I'm also against this whole "let's invite women to balance the numbers here", that's a politician move, changing the numbers to change perceptions. Let's just invite whoever designer friends we have, the women will eventually be included in those friends.

    While we're at it, let's also throw race at this and graph it out and see what race we're missing so we can invite more of those as well? And we might as well also throw sexual preference in here as well, god forbids we might be short on gay people.

    10 points
    • Bryce DriesengaBryce Driesenga, over 4 years ago

      Exactly. Why should we only look at gender when aiming for equality?

      2 points
    • Laura McGuiganLaura McGuigan, over 4 years ago

      So you're saying don't try to aim for equality and accurate representation, just let the status quo be what it is? Seems lazy, close-minded, and a recipe for hive-mind.

      7 points
      • Antonio PratasAntonio Pratas, over 4 years ago

        Equality is one thing, inviting more of a certain type of people to balance out the numbers on the site is another. Or don't you have the same kind of rights here that I, as a man, have?

        I personally don't see the point of it. How do you, as a woman, feel about the community making an effort to invite more female users? I think that the part of "making an effort" is what is wrong, it shouldn't be needed an effort, it should be just natural. When I talk about a website or an article to my designer friends I don't filter by gender. Sure, there can be a DN meetup for girls, or even topics on the site created with the female user in mind, both things to encourage more active users and networking. But a challenge?

        7 points
        • Laura McGuiganLaura McGuigan, over 4 years ago

          Right, but it's not natural, thus it requires an effort. Why is that so difficult for the community to understand? No, you shouldn't filter by gender, I agree with you, and generally disagree with the segmentation of the community—but because the voices are so off-scale, effort is required to gain traction and become the status quo. Without that effort, we just continue to live in a world where (some) men don't realize the bubble they live in and thus get offended when women (or other men!) try to work to achieve a balance.

          6 points
          • Antonio PratasAntonio Pratas, over 4 years ago

            I don't mind putting the effort at all to bring more women to the community or make them more aware. I just dislike the idea of creating a whole movement and a hashtag #MoreFemaleOnDN, and to me it seems that it does more bad than good for the female inclusion.

            And I'll be honest, if I was a female designer I'd be trying to promote that fact for my professional gain all the time. I think that women have the power to achieve more and more professionally and historically, and I hope to see more of that throughout the years. The fact that women are extremely multi-tasking is something that to this day still astonishes me, because I can't even listen to the TV and read an email at the same time. Oh, and you can create LIFE within you.

            But in all seriousness, female are an important part of the community. As well as everything else. For the last couple of years I've been working with an extremely diverse group of people, different races, nationalities, languages, sexual preferences, and that allows for a different view from each and every one, and a different experience, leading to better ideas and different opinions, bringing more to the table. I just don't like that it seems that the standard should be white + male. That's just too old, and boring.

            And I hope that at least this topic stirred the discussion enough to bring a couple of new female users to contribute to DN, forced or not.

            2 points
  • Raphael LoderRaphael Loder, over 4 years ago

    Why?

    8 points
    • Calum SmithCalum Smith, over 4 years ago

      Because diversity of opinions? And because seriously, that ratio is even worse than Slashdot.

      14 points
      • Bryce DriesengaBryce Driesenga, over 4 years ago

        Serious question: If we think it is prudent to try to improve the ratio of women to men on DN, should we not look at other segments of the population that may be excluded and try to balance those out too? (e.g. different races, handicapped people, LGBT folks, etc)

        4 points
    • Gwen BrinsmeadGwen Brinsmead, over 4 years ago

      Why not?

      At the very least you're introducing someone new to the community.

      13 points
      • Raphael LoderRaphael Loder, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

        It seems it isn't about introducing someone new, but to introduce only new women. Which I find quite strange. Because I always thought it should be about the job and passion every member or future member has, not about the gender? Edit: I've invited only 1 person and that was because this person asked to be included (was male, if this is of any relevance). So I don't really know how other people handle this, when they hand out invites: do they only invite men? Do they actually discourage any female designers to join? Because that would be really sexist.

        Diversity is great, but diversity only for the sake of "balancing out numbers"? That seems pretty... wrong to me

        And I have yet to receive an appropriate answer, because "Why not?" is not really a factual argument, nor is it basis for a discussion.

        7 points
        • Ryan RushingRyan Rushing, over 4 years ago

          It's not about balancing out numbers. It's about being an open, diverse, and friendly space for everyone. The statistics are only a measurement tool to give us an idea of the diversity, which in this case seems to be lacking. "Balancing out numbers" vs "measuring diversity" is a subtle but important distinction.

          Also, "why not" is certainly relevant given your original "why" comment.

          3 points
  • Ryan Van GattenRyan Van Gatten, over 4 years ago

    We don't need to invite females. They are perfectly capable of signing up for an account themselves. Registration is opened to anyone.

    8 points
  • Florent AlixFlorent Alix, over 4 years ago

    every gender-related post on the internet goes reaaaally wild, reaaaally fast nowadays.

    Does the Internet start to care about gender ?

    6 points
  • Mike PropstMike Propst, over 4 years ago

    on the flipside, if you want to keep your female designer friends off the site, this thread is the perfect way to do it.

    6 points
    • Richard BallermannRichard Ballermann, over 4 years ago

      Odd, nobody has implied that women aren't welcome. Anyone arguing the proposed invite strategy is merely stating that women are equally as capable of signing up as the men. Everyone here supports equality. I personally don't see the sense in working extra hard to make women feel more welcome than any other potential member.

      This is a rational discussion and every opinion matters. If anyone reading these statements interprets them as a disguised version of "we don't want women here" they are completely confusing the issue.

      4 points
  • Sacha GreifSacha Greif, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    We don't really know where those stats come from though, and whether they're accurate or not.

    How do you even figure out someone's gender just through anonymous analytics?

    (Although independently of that, I think having more women both in the industry and on DN would be a great thing)

    6 points
  • Joe BlauJoe Blau, over 4 years ago

    I've only invited females and none of them have stuck around.

    6 points
  • Jordan TannerJordan Tanner, over 4 years ago

    Invited. Not that I was holding back in the first place though...

    5 points
  • spencer syfrig, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    Aren't those stats for the people who clicked through to that article vs DN registered user stats? He states that DN has 17,000 users and 1,900 viewed the article. I would be interested to hear from DN if their stats show something different.

    That being said, I completely support inviting a more diverse community here.

    5 points
  • Shawn BorskyShawn Borsky, over 4 years ago

    I already invite people who are interested in design. It seems that making it a point to invite female users simply hurts the progress toward equality. Equal by treating them differently?

    Just treat every designer like an individual. Does this person like design? Boom, invited.

    4 points
  • Todd BenningsTodd Bennings, over 4 years ago

    Will someone please inform me of the qualifiers for receiving an invite to DN? It's a forum and many of you are treating it like a fraternity. What is it about DN that makes you think it can't be improved by adding a bit of diversity amongst gender? It's obvious that many of you have the benefit of being accepted in every space and that's how you'd like to keep things.

    I find the request to be a simple one because a female perspective is one I value. Do you value a female perspective? If not, please enlighten me.

    4 points
    • Maurice CherryMaurice Cherry, over 4 years ago

      Will someone please inform me of the qualifiers for receiving an invite to DN?

      You don't even need the invite system anymore -- anyone can create an account! I welcome having more gender diversity around here.

      1 point
  • Gabriel LovatoGabriel Lovato, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    So, about that "there are more men designers" thing...

    RISD : 34% male / 66% female

    Parsons : 28% male / 72% female

    Pratt : 34% male / 66% female

    Cooper Union : 64% male / 36% female

    SVA : 39% male / 61% female

    SCAD : 36% male / 64% female

    Source : http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges

    4 points
  • jj moijj moi, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

    I happened to have invited 4 female designers to DN in the past. None of them've stuck around. They just weren't interested in most of the topics here.

    p.s. 82.8% of the designers are male according to a survey of A List Apart (page 7 and 30): http://alistapart.com/d/2007surveyresults/2007surveyresults.pdf

    3 points
  • anthony thomasanthony thomas, over 4 years ago

    Why doesn't that seem right? There are more men who are firefighters than women. Should firefighters start actively recruiting women for the sole purpose of balancing the gender statistics? Or should they only recruit people who qualify and meet the standard as a firefighter?

    Should we recruit people who are going to actually contribute and add value to DN, or should we focus on gender to get better statistics? The answer is obvious.

    1 point
  • Cody IddingsCody Iddings, over 4 years ago

    I agree we should always be inviting more people to the DN community but when we challenge stats, that seems a little strange.

    "That doesn't seem right, and I imagine it's not an accurate representation of the global design community."

    I was under the assumption, as well, that there are more men in the workforce, thus more men as designers. I don't have stats on this, it's an assumption. That would mean that DN is in fact an accurate representation of the global design community, albeit a bit skewed. If I look at pinterest stats and see that there are more woman using pinterest, will I say "that doesn't seem right?"

    1 point
    • Daniel FoscoDaniel Fosco, over 4 years ago

      If it serves as a point of reference, I've just been to Interaction South America (biggest design conf down here) and gender balance was much healthier than this.

      Granted, I think DN is not that popular in South America, but still, it's hard to believe the gender ratio in design comes even close to 91% men, anywhere.

      3 points
    • Elliott ReganElliott Regan, over 4 years ago

      no, 8.8% is way more than a little skewed.

      3 points
    • Laura McGuiganLaura McGuigan, over 4 years ago

      Just because it's an "accurate" representation of the community doesn't mean that there are not more women out there who see comments like the one's on this thread and don't feel comfortable entering the community. It's like judging a book by it's cover, what you see is not what you get. Time to put in the effort to dig a little deeper and make an effort to bring more women into the community to help balance it, even if it is "cheating the system".

      I would wager to say there are a decent number of women in the DN community (and the design community as a whole) who don't have the unspoken privilege of speaking their mind. They are taught their whole lives to watch what they say, to not offend, while men (particularly white males) have always had, well, basically free range in their communication.

      Shame on the community for looking at this issue and saying "it is what it is"—it's not, and it's up to all of us to change that.

      10 points
      • Rachel WhiteRachel White, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

        Exactly this.

        9 points
        • Richard BallermannRichard Ballermann, over 4 years ago

          But this is the point: it is what it is. Who ever said that women aren't welcome here? Have you ever considered why women aren't joining in the first place or does this discussion just reinforce your belief that this is just a boys club and we don't want you here? The gender imbalance is simply not a result of the DN ecosystem, we did nothing to create this imbalance, we could just as easily place the blame on the women who aren't signing up. The ones who oppose this are simply not as willing or open to the idea of pro-active inclusion. Yes it would be great if more women were a part of this, but it shouldn't be a result of forced recruitment. I don't like the fact that taller men have an easier time in the work force than someone as short as myself, but that situation simply is what it is and I make due with that reality.

          You being "disgusted" by rational debate is where I think you're missing the point completely. I haven't read anything in this thread that suggests women aren't welcome. If DN wanted more women members, let the powers that be at DN promote that initiative, it should not come down to encouraging the community to help fix a "problem" they didn't create.

          4 points
          • Matt SoriaMatt Soria, over 4 years ago (edited over 4 years ago )

            I keep accidentally upvoting your comments when I mean to hit "reply" — oops!

            Richard, DN didn't write the post, a community member did. A member of the community encouraged the rest of the community to take notice of this imbalance, which absolutely wasn't worded as an attack on you or any other male member, please, re-read the post. The intention here seems pretty clear — hey, it seems this grand community of ours might be missing out on a group of people that would strengthen it, perhaps we can help out with that a bit, as members of this community who care about it.

            That's it dude.

            I think the disgust, and let me emphasize that I think, because I am a male, and I don't have the same perspective as the target that this discussion may or may not be isolating, but I think the disgust is that someone made a 100% harmless and blameless suggestion that might contribute to the broadening of our community, and then a ton of members responded by saying things like "this is a problem I didn't create", "why would we do that?", and "it is what it is." If the post had said something like "hey Richard B — you're a misogynistic jerk because you've never invited a female designer to the community" or even "hey all of you males are misogynistic jerks because there aren't many female members here" then you and everyone else's defensive responses might be warranted, but to have so many people respond like this to a harmless suggestion whose clear intent was to make an effort to strengthen the community by including more people in it that seem to be underrepresented would absolutely turn me off and make me feel unwelcome if I were part of that group.

            Again, if you feel so strongly that you play no role in the outcome of this community and how it functions, then why are you a member in the first place?

            1 point
            • Anna NiessAnna Niess, over 4 years ago

              Matt: Just wanted to say, thanks for speaking up in this thread. I keep finding myself coming back to this post and getting overwhelmed and disheartened by all of the responses. I do what I can to speak up, but its just not enough. It's not up to just the women on DN to defend the need for social equality, we need help from the guys too. I really appreciate your point of view and your willingness to share it.

              2 points
              • Matt SoriaMatt Soria, over 4 years ago

                Anna, no problem! You're absolutely right — equality issues are important and impact everyone in the community, not just those who feel they are the victims of inequality. More than anything, this place is valuable because it is open and welcoming to all, and besides the fact that the exclusion of women and the fostering of a welcoming environment for them in a community (especially an online, comment-based community) is a big issue at large, it bothers me so much as well that so many people seem to be pushing back against someone who thought they had an idea that might make the community a better place. If the posting of an idea that you think would strengthen DN is unwelcome by so many then what message does that send to people? What message does it send to everyone, but especially people who are already unsure if they are welcome or not? Yikes!

                0 points
  • Kelsey Trabue, over 4 years ago

    Seriously, there's less than 10% of women using this site? I'm on it!

    0 points