• Cory W.Cory W., over 8 years ago

    I feel kind of bad for people that have to make things for designers. We're a bunch of hyper-critical whiners.

    20 points
    • Josué Gutiérrez Valenciano, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

      You bet on it. I feel very shamed about been linked somehow with this stereotype of UX/UI designers these days. Like a Mac-iPhone fanboy, hater of dribbble users, Starbucks coffee junkie and Anti-Adobe guy. Jeez, what the hell? I do like Sketch, I think is an amazing tool, but not even near a standard for this industry, tough. Is not even on Windows! Mac designers are minority.

      I use Photoshop since I had 15 years old, started with the 7.0 Pirate Edition for learning. Now that I am CC suscriber, I like the approach they are doing. Need to improve, yes, and fast, fuck yes. But this kind of designers using Sketch here are starting to piss me off. It seems like everything that Google (like Material Design), Microsoft (Windows 10-Windows Phone UX/UI, Surface Tablets), Adobe (CC improvements) are bad, wrong, imperfect or meh. But what Apple does (like the long-shadows, that a lot critized months ago, and sudently are OK) or Sketch ( and other indie projects) are amazing, revolutionary...

      Don't get me wrong, I do like Mac, Sketch, and all these new tools. But I'm primary PC designer 'cause Photoshop runs like shit on Mac. I prefer real graphic cards and no laptop kind like the Apple uses. But it's necesary to be a hyper-critical for everything? Critic is good, but some people here are crossing the line.

      That said, we can enjoy DN just for the links of amazing stuff, ignore the comments filled with hate. Or you can read them but not take them like a serious opinion. Just, meh, another whiner that, oh my, is a designer.

      Give me a break...

      4 points
  • Andrew LucasAndrew Lucas, over 8 years ago


    15 points
  • Sam Pierce LollaSam Pierce Lolla, over 8 years ago

    "Show, don't tell."

    When I see messaging around what people "plan to do", it makes me think there's an "idea person" running the show w/o a string ability to execute on product.

    You don't win customers by telling them that you're going to release better products, you win them by releasing better products.

    10 points
  • Marc JenkinsonMarc Jenkinson, over 8 years ago

    The t r a c k i n g on their body type. It's killing me.

    10 points
  • Tom GurkaTom Gurka, over 8 years ago

    So much hate on DN. Sheesh what a bunch of babies.

    9 points
  • Dwayne CharringtonDwayne Charrington, over 8 years ago

    Wow, Designer News users really do hate Photoshop. I went through the comments and couldn't see one single positive comment here. Yeah, Photoshop is currently pretty bad for web design, but is this not what we wanted, for Adobe to finally recognise that photographers and web designers uses Photoshop and have different needs?

    This site proves that Adobe is focusing on making Photoshop better for web designers which is something everyone has wanted for a long time now. Seems to me a lot of the hate is just for the sake of hating on Photoshop and because it is cool to hate on Photoshop.

    The one feature I would love to see is a workflow welcome screen. When Photoshop loads I would love to see two large boxes. One box says, "Photography Workflow" and one says, "Designer Workflow" if you click the photography box, you get tools and a window setup for working with imagery. If you click the designer box, you get a stripped back vector based workflow similar to Sketch without all of the crappy effects and other non-web tools/options.

    Some other obvious additions:

    1. Full SVG support (the fact we can export SVGs already makes me hopeful for SVG import)
    2. A better type tool
    3. Font identifying tool like What The Font. Maybe I am being picky here, but a font identifying feature would be awesome
    4. A better "Save for Web" - things have gotten better, but Fireworks still manages to export PNG files at smaller sizes than Photoshop.
    5. Precise pixel alignment - in Fireworks you had a properties panel with X and Y boxes when you clicked on an element. I feel as though Photoshop makes it painful to move elements around in this manner (you have to use the Transform tool and do it that way).
    6. Pages support (this would tie in with the workflow option box) ability to specify master pages like Fireworks and then taking the multiple canvas screens from Sketch for different device resolutions.
    7. Built in grids - In Sketch grids are built in and easy to generate, I have to open up a Photoshop grid template to do the same.
    8. More realistic antialiasing - It is not a secret that text in Photoshop looks better than the real world result in a browser. I have seen instances where clients expect the text shown to them in a design to look as smooth and crisp in their browser as it does in Photoshop. A more realistic browser rendering antialiasing feature would be great.

    While Sketch is the darling of DN, let us be honest with ourselves: Sketch is only for Mac and not every designer has the luxury of getting clients who use Mac's and have $100 Sketch licences. Photoshop whether designers like it or not is still the standard in the industry. I have read too many stories on DN alone about needing to hand over PSD files to know this is a fact.

    I think one thing evident here is the fact Adobe is openly declaring war on Sketch. Obviously they see its growth and popularity as enough of a threat to lock down the hatches and focus on appeasing to designers and photographers. This is a win for everyone.

    I like Sketch, but if Photoshop can finally give designers the tools and workflow that tools like Sketch offer, then it is safe to say, it is game over for Bohemian Coding.

    7 points
    • Liz HeidnerLiz Heidner, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

      RE: #4


      And on that note, what is the point of having the ability to scale the saved-out image if the scaling fucks up the image saved?

      There have been times for perceivable no reason, that choosing to scale the "saved for web" image down to 50% totally screws up both the file size (suddenly bloats), and creates super random pixel artifacts. Quit photoshop, reopen, perform exact same action and the save for web feature now works.

      RE: #8

      And this. I have to remind my clients of this on a weekly basis. "This was done in photoshop, it will look a little different."

      And to be honest, this is one of the biggest reasons why I do my best to mock things up with inspect element feature in chrome more than anywhere else now.

      (yeah I know scary, no way to save but screenshots, terrible idea... I need to finish getting git installed)

      2 points
  • Carolann Merchant, over 8 years ago

    Got to interact with Charles and Bradee who are on the photoshop team. They're both awesome and were able to shed a lot of light on why photoshop is so slow to adapt to designers.

    As a long time frustrated all-things-adobe user, I have a ton of respect for what they're taking on. Would seriously recommend chatting with them if you're as baffled as the rest of the community. They can explain so much!

    6 points
    • Chris Price, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

      Agreed. I met Bradee and Charles (and many other Photoshop team members) at an Adobe event in San Francisco earlier this year. They are a passionate bunch working on a lot of interesting projects to make Photoshop better for designers.

      More recently, I did a short Hangout meeting with Charles and showed him some of my specific workflow -- and he even put up with me showing more Illustrator than Photoshop for those Illustrator features that would be welcomed additions to Photoshop.

      I do believe Adobe is trying to address the issues. Keep communicating and sharing -- as you see, they are here gathering info and trying to explain things.

      4 points
  • David KizlerDavid Kizler, over 8 years ago

    Adobe Fireworks was Photoshop for Design.

    Now Sketch is Photoshop for Design.

    The market research is already there. Just read all the passionate posts about why Fireworks and Sketch are better for web design than Photoshop. This seems more like a problem of politics than a lack of information about what designers want.

    4 points
  • Randy HRandy H, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

    Both Sketch and Photoshop have their own strengths and annoyances. I love them both for different reasons. There are certainly some long-awaited changes that designer have been waiting for. I am glad that Adobe is reaching out to listen and am saddened to see some the outright rudeness and negativity in this thread.

    Photoshop is great for painting, processing images/videos, and sketching. I love its automation features. For more image-heavy designs I like to use photoshop because it is [in some ways] less rigid. I don't have to fiddle with annoying clipping masks and imported photos. I can grab the paint brush and do a rough sketch to see how something might work before taking time to draw it in vector. Working in a vector-dominant program makes raster work tedious and working in a raster-dominant program makes vector work tedious. Either way, I am constantly juggling applications.

    In order for photoshop to be a complete design tool, it needs to be more accomodating in vector workflows and draw more features from InDesign,Illustrator and Sketch. Working with vectors, is difficult in photoshop. We'll need a pathfinder and shape-builder equivelant. Design requires rapid iterations, comparing different solutions, and fluidity in workflow. Give me more space to work, less steps to accomplish things and fewer distractions (more on this later).

    Here are some things that I would like to see changed in Photoshop:

    Create a clutter-free workspace: The interface in sketch adapts to what the user is doing by only showing what is relevant in a nice clean column. If I am drawing a vector shape, I don't need text properties. In PS, when I have all of my frequently used palettes open, I am left with little space to work. When I am working on a layout in Photoshop, I want to see the whole page that I am designing without having to press tab and hide all interface elements. Maybe palettes could be set as persistent or adaptable (shown when relevant). This is especially relevant when I am away from the office and working on my laptop screen. I often feel like I am constantly showing, hiding, switching tabs, and moving palettes. I would love to have color, swatches, gradients, and kruler merged into one heading, possibly with collapse/drop-down arrows inside. Text and paragraph could also be merged. I want as much workspace as possible.

    Illustrator has many palettes as well, but The large pasteboard helps me feel more less claustrphobic with its pasteboard. I can use that space to work on bits or store peices for later. It allows me to drag and drop things in and out of my design to see what works best. The pastebopard gives me more than enough room to quickly "play", iterate and experiment without having to immediately commit. The equuivelant in photoshop is having tons of layers in groups and having to shift them around on top of the design that you are working on.

    I know that PS is a huge program with many features for different users, uses and applications and it must be a huge challenge to make it useable for everyone. In the past it was a photography that eventually transitioned to accomodate other use-cases. In some way I feel like it needs the ability to seperate, focus, and adapt better to some of those use-cases.

    Stackable layer effects on one layer: The user should be able to have 2 strokes or transparent gradients, or drop shadows on the same layer, without having to create a duplicate layer/group.

    Typography: The type tool is slow to start and often feels clunky crippled compared to Illustrator. The type tool and features in Photoshop should have feature parody with Illustrator. I would like to be able to adjust typographic tab measurements. I need a Glyphs window to see all glyphs in a font. Currently, if a glyph is too large to fit in a text box, it doesn't show even part of the glyph. I would also love the option to have type rendered as vector, rather than see the pixels.

    Pages, Pasteboard: I would love to be able to have pages, rather than dealing with hiding/showing groups and messing with layercomps all the time. I know that you have improved the experience of dealing with offscreen and/or larger-than-screen objects, but I would also love to have a toggleable pasteboard area to store bits of things that I am working on. Off-canvas objects are difficult to find and work with. It would make more sense to have objects scaled to the current workspace area as a smart object so the user doesn't need to zoom/scale just to deal with it.

    Vectors: When I am working with vectore shapes like rounded rectangles I often have strange unexpected behaviors. I don't know if some of these are made by design or are just bugs. Either way, they are not clear to me. One Scenario: - I create a rounded rectangle, adjust the corner radius, then continue working on something else. I decide that I want to change the corner radius, but the corner radius option in gone. If I fiddle around with the white cursor/point tool, sometimes I can make it come back. How do I enable it again? - While drawing vector shapes, I often cannot draw to the precise pixel-size that I am shooting for. - the default percent unit is rarely a unit I want to use with the transform tool.

    Vector shapes should stay vector until rasterized. I don't want a halo of pixels around my vectors when I am working with them.

    I never really understood why the paths had to occupy a different palette. I think that shape layers and paths could all live in the layers palette as long as they are visually differentiated.

    If a shape layer is selected I should be able to change the stroke and fill without having to first select the white cursor/point tool, selecting the shape again, clicking the drop down and selecting a color. Eleminate these extra steps to make our workflow more fluid. Maybe the foreground/background colors switch to the fill/stroke like illustrators. Maybe it is a drop down with a color picker and swatches.

    Misc: - When scaling a layer group, I want the option to scale it with the bounds of visible information or mask size, rather than the size of all invisible parts of the group. - If I have a shape layer selected and click a swatch, the shape should turn that color. - I want the ability to link fills, strokes colors, text colors, color overlays, etc to swatches so that if I change the swatch, all linked objects change in suit (similar to InDesign). - I want to find and replace text, fonts, linked objects. - At certain zoom levels, there often appears to be an extra border of transparent pixels around the canvas. - There is a terrible, irrepairable bug when dealing with blur effects on smart objects. It has been a known issue for a long time. If a gaussian blur is applied to a smart object, it has the potential of corrupting the entire PSD. Images turn into glitch art, and blocks will be removed from masks. If you try to edit them it just gets worse. This mainly only happens with large files, but it can completely ruin a project. - I would like to save sets of guides and toggle them on and off. - have a columned grid that is separate from guides and sits below the design as does not get dragged around with mouse interaction. I often end up screwing up my own guide systems by mistake. I like that inDesign allows me to toggle my baseline grid and document grid and keep them locked underneath everything. I know that the newest photoshop update has addressed some issues with grids, so excuse me if this is fixed.

    3 points
    • Levi MyersLevi Myers, over 8 years ago

      I completely agree with all your points, except for not seeing a pixel halo when working with vectors. Sometimes it's useful to see a live update to the raster output.

      Re: stackable layer effects—the other thing that layer effects really need is the ability to reorder the effects. Every time PS updates, I try this out to see if they've finally added it.

      I've had the same issues as you with editing shapes and adjusting corner radii. I found a script that works quite a bit better than PS's built in controls.

      1 point
      • Randy HRandy H, over 8 years ago

        Yeah the pixel halo can be useful. I guess I just don't want to see it when I am trying to build certain pieces of art. Maybe it would be nice to toggle it. I also agree with you only swapping the order of effects. Thanks for the script suggestion. I will give it a try when I get home.

        1 point
    • Kurt MadsenKurt Madsen, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

      Re: Clutter Free Workspace —

      Did you see this teaser presentation from AdobeMAX last week about "Project Recess"?

      Screenshot: Project Recess Screenshotlink

      I'm not sure how well that might meet your needs, but the framework for flexible changes they talked about might make it easier to get there in the future.

      1 point
      • Randy HRandy H, over 8 years ago

        This is certainly going in the right direction. Recess looks much more consolidated and spacious. Thanks for the heads-up.

        1 point
  • Tori ZTori Z, over 8 years ago

    The should just learn from sketch.... That is what "streamline" actually looks like.

    3 points
  • Account deleted over 8 years ago

    The scroll performance when focused on the splash image is atrocious. Start with that!

    3 points
    • Zorana GeeZorana Gee, over 8 years ago

      Are you talking about the welcome screen? You can choose to never show again by checking the checkbox at the bottom of the window. But yes, you have to scroll to the bottom.

      0 points
    • Zorana GeeZorana Gee, over 8 years ago

      Oh never mind, I see what you're talking about - the page.

      0 points
    • Chris Price, over 8 years ago

      The splash screen itself is pretty bad on Windows. It takes forever for it to load the contents. It's not only a problem in Photoshop but also Illustrator.

      Turning it off was the very first thing I did when launching the latest update for the first time (after waiting an eternity to be able to scroll down to do it).

      0 points
      • Account deleted over 8 years ago

        I was talking about the DN link, but yeah also that! I'm really enjoying Affinity Designer atm :)

        0 points
  • Aaron SagrayAaron Sagray, over 8 years ago

    I feel like Adobe is skating to where the puck was 7 years ago.

    2 points
  • Shawn BorskyShawn Borsky, over 8 years ago

    So...I like Photoshop. This site is kinda sad, but yeah. Photoshop is currently my favorite design tool over Sketch and Pixelmator and trying Affinity but I still enjoy Photoshop.

    1 point
  • wojtek w.wojtek w., over 8 years ago

    Wasn't this posted here a month ago or something?

    1 point
    • Charles PearsonCharles Pearson, over 8 years ago

      Yeah, it was. We launched the site earlier this year -- and believe me our intent wasn't to upset or creep people out. We wanted to convey that right now design features and workflows are the main focus for the Ps team right now. As we move forward we're talking to folks, we're mapping workflows, we're listening (not to your private conversations! :), digging into painpoints, and even experimenting with a dev process that matches key customers with Ps designers/ devs to provide feedback and build out new features. We're doing all this so we can build the right things, address the right issues.

      I don't know -- conversations about design tools can spark emotion and get ideological, but I think overall its a great time for everybody. So much creativity and innovation in the design tool space, lots of great stuff coming and each new release and tool pushes everybody forward. We're trying to have fun with it, hope you guys are too.

      7 points
      • Kurt MadsenKurt Madsen, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

        Kudos I really appreciate the outreach you guys are doing in regard to making things better. You've got a tough job working on a mature, gigantic product (yeah, it is a bit bloated at times), with entrenched users with specific, nitpicky "needs", and a broad and overextended organization.

        And I must say, you guys are going about it wonderfully — working with game-changers like Source and InVision, open-sourcing code on Github, and actually being active and vocal within the design community. You're making your mess public and showing that changes are happening, people are listening, and good things are being produced.

        So, yeah, thanks to you and yours.

        Job Title Btw, I dig your "design anthropologist" title — studying people through design. It says so much more than a sterile "UX" designation. Is that your official job title? What's the job description entail? How does it differ from more industry-standard "UX designer/researcher/analyst" positions?

        Really, any more info on it and how it applies to what your doing there at Adobe and in the design field would be wonderful and appreciated. Thanks!

        On a now completely unrelated note: Are there any plans to add a Glyphs palette to Photoshop, like the one in Illustrator?

        1 point
        • Tom GantzerTom Gantzer, over 8 years ago

          Thank God for a reasonable post. I was literally considering quitting my profession from reading this cancerous thread, it is facepalm-worthy that so many people hurl abuse at Adobe and praise their competitors. I know at least 4 designers who talk about how great other software is in comparison to Adobe, but still use Adobe in their workflow everyday.

          People just love to hate, but I never expected such a shitstorm. How ridiculous people can be... We're supposed to be open to changes, constantly being ahead of the curve, and we are throwing abuse at a company that are making clear steps in the right direction.

          I for one am really excited for the new focus, and can't wait to see more updates flowing through CC.

          3 points
  • Jeremy TreudenJeremy Treuden, over 8 years ago

    Did anyone else get a creeper vibe from that headline?

    Seriously, though, I wouldn't be that surprised if Photoshop was listening in on us now.

    PS + NSA = Can't even design anymore.

    1 point
  • Mattan IngramMattan Ingram, over 8 years ago

    It's called PHOTOshop for a reason. It was made to edit photos.

    Photoshop should not be bent into some horrible UI monster.

    We have Illustrator (which has been great for UI for years now, despite its name) and Sketch (also misnamed) and some other new tools for that.

    Honestly a lot of the complaints I see here about Photoshop features are already fixed in Illustrator, and probably should not be in Photoshop in the first place.

    0 points
  • Tori ZTori Z, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

    Photoshop is not good enough so I switch to Sketch. That simple. And I'm still paying for it because every design student in our school is forced to pay for Adobe subscription. Also, I'm actively seeking better solution for interaction prototyping too. After Effects is also a pain in the ass.

    0 points
  • Juan VelascoJuan Velasco, over 8 years ago

    I don't know what bothers me the most: Designers and clients perpetuating the idea that Photoshop is the de facto application for interface design or Adobe insisting that they can take an application created for photographers and make it work for interface design.

    Fireworks was a great solution that was full of stupid bugs that sadly Adobe never cared to fix. Now Adobe killed Fireworks and they need to do something bigger than simply patching the old bloated Photoshop to make it feel nearly as straightforward as FW or new alternatives that are growing quickly like Sketch.

    That said and, even though the last time I checked, Photoshop was still a subpar application for interface design, I like how open the guys in the PS team are and am willing to give it another try one of these days.

    0 points
  • Crampa ...Crampa ..., over 8 years ago

    ITT: Everyone hates photoshop.

    0 points