He left for the right reason, but he left in the wrong way.
I think it's great that he drew a line, but he did it silently and in such a way where it screwed over his team, the project, his recruiter... AND his boss.
Nobody wants to hire someone who just walks out of a job... and now that this story is public, I'm not sure it's going to help him. He comes off as a guy that admittedly did not openly stand his ground, did not talk to HR, and simply walked out.
I have no problem with someone not fitting in or having second thoughts, but he had a contract and the least he could have done was give notice he was looking to terminate it early because of "X". He could have also tipped off his recruiter, who would have had a chance to save face and find a replacement... and also work other channels on his behalf.
Honestly, I'm surprised he just didn't tell the boss "Look man, I'm going to get you everything you need on time... and if I don't - you can drop me, but let's skip the jokes OK... I'm cranking this 110% for you and I'm not gonna let you down". If the guy gave back attitude - well duh, HR time.
He handled this so wrong.
I agree completely. There were so many better ways he could have handled this, and now he's not only burned bridges with Apple and his recruiter, but now that he's put this story out in public, he's thrown some nice kindling under future bridges as well.
It will be interesting to see if this in fact OPENS doors for him - for everyone who cries "unprofessional", there's probably someone clapping their hands.
I think with some quick tweaks to how he closes the piece, he could be bit better off
I hope so. Seems like opinion is split 50/50 on it. I think him leaving that situation was the right thing, I just think there were so many better ways he could have handled it.
Yeah. I applaud him for doing what was best for him and his family for sure, but you just don't walk out in the middle of the day and send an email saying you quit. No matter what you've been through, it's super unprofessional.
I've got a kid and I understand completely where he's coming from, but I just can't see a positive side to this story from a career perspective - based solely on how he walked out. I mean, he could have just waited till the end of the day, stopped by the guys desk and simply said, "I don't think this is working for me... I'd like to give you a couple weeks to make sure you find someone but if you'd rather cut ties now, I'd completely understand."
I mean, clearly the boss was a complete jerk and probably a bit intimidating to talk to, but it's still no excuse. I think almost every one here supports the reason he left... but it kind of baffles me how anyone can think they way he did it is OK. I guess I'm just old-school or something.
Guess I should've read all the comments before posting mine, but I'm 100% in support of what you are saying. It almost seems like he wrote this to get noticed (it seems to be working), but the impression I'm getting of him isn't the best one. Everyone wants to do what's best for their family, but nobody likes to see people screw others over.
This sums it up perfectly.
He left for the right reason, but he left in the wrong way.
I don't know about this. No matter how terrible the job, I'd never walk out like that. Doesn't sound like you tried very hard to talk things out with your boss either, or air your grievances about how he behaved. Sounds like this could've been handled much better overall.
I can see that in terms of struggling with workflows, work style, etc., but not so much in this case. If someone is hurling veiled insults and generally being rude, they know what they are doing. I have to image it's rare that you can speak up in this situation and have a positive outcome.
I'm definitely not saying he should've just weathered it and hoped for the best, clearly the situation sucked. But walking out without any kind of notice is a pretty big deal. It's also hard to say how things would've gone with that boss, since it seems that conversation never happened. I've worked with people like that before, and though a "conversation" made things more awkward, it also meant less abuse and rudeness. Bad bosses happen, I'm just not sure walking out was the best decision.
That's true. To me, if the boss is acting in a way that makes someone feel like they need to just get up, leave, and never come back, it's a valid response.
You can say 'he should have had a conversation' or 'the boss never should have acted like that' - it's just a matter of where you place the accountability. Who knows what it felt like to be in his shoes, though. It's hard to know the right way to react unless you're faced with it. Feel bad for him though, sounds like a horrible overall experience.
it's a valid course of action, but I think the extent of the author's actions is what's up for debate here.
There were a lot of options - boss, HR, recruitment agency that could have possibly resolved his grievances. In this case, I'm not sure where the accountability is placed matters. Most people are just commenting about what would have been best for the author.
if the boss truly was that belittling, i'm sure Apple has a very large and accessible HR department. just one of the many ways that this situation could have been handled better.
shame to let one man get under your skin enough to ruin a dream job.
What's the best way to handle being new on the job and your boss's comments making you uncomfortable?
Talk to your coworkers / talk to your boss? I mean, this stuff isn't really rocket surgery. Whenever I start somewhere I try to find a few people who can give me the skinny on what the social environment is like at the office. Coworkers aren't gonna get weirded out if you tell them you're uncomfortable with how your boss is acting. Worst case, have a quick chat with your boss and tell them how you feel. If they react inappropriately or their response isn't good enough, go to HR, or to their boss.
There definitely is some truth to your viewpoint. It was a tricky situation because I was actually contracted by one company and paid by another contracting company, and then I worked at Apple. It was unclear exactly who I was supposed to talk to. Everyone? At any rate, my boss had been working there for years, and I didn't feel I had any power to change things that apparently had been happening long before I arrived. I saw how other employees who stood up to his BS were ostracized from his inner circle. And they did end up on his shit list. I wasn't planning on walking out. But I also refuse to deal with someone's bullshit. It may not have been the smartest move for me professionally, but in that situation I did what was in my gut.
- publicly display that you're incapable of acting professionally.
- ask the world to contact you if they have a "cool" job.
Let's hope so
Agreed. Really pumped for his follow-up piece when he walks out on the next job.
5.) Get sweet job at Apple
Good for you. Stay close to your daughter. Time is so short.
Thanks you. So true.
I'll throw an opinionated TL:DR on this.
- Guy gets dream job.
- Guy's boss is an absolute ass and is ruining dream job.
- Rather than pursuing a solution to the problem through (I'm assuming) available channels Guy decided to run away, leaving a nasty note.
- Guy writes whiney article on the internet.
Pretty much all I took away from this. Sorry. I would look at this so differently if you had at least attempted to do something about it.
I can only presume that you were a little apprehensive to raise the point with HR because you felt that it might jeopardise the future of the contract, any potential future opportunities or your reputation (all of which are crippled by this article anyway). Even if you had put in a complaint about the guy and been taken off the contract you could have walked out of there with your head held high.
Like I said this is just my 2p on the article and maybe I'm being too cynical. Honestly, I'm very sorry that you ended up in an uncomfortable position, I know exactly what that's like, however, there is no point sugar coating it. You handled situation incredibly badly.
I completely agree too, I don't really see the point this type of postmortem article. I hope that this doesn't have implications on your future career milestones because the valley is so small.
Personally I think type of behavior (really unprofessional exit) would make future employers very hesitant to hire you.
Sorry. I would look at this so differently if you had at least attempted to do something about it.
Someone had to say it, and I totally agree with you. I can't help but think how poorly this reflects on Jordan not only as a trusted employee but a designer as well. As designers, we all strive to find the best solution to a problem, but man, walking out without any communication is definitely not a good solution. I see this as indicative of poor strategy and lack of clear thought process.
Jordan, I'm sorry you had to go through such a terrible working experience, but you just shot yourself in the foot by writing an article like this (not to mention asking for a new opportunity at the end? dude, c'mon) If I was a hiring manager doing my research, after reading this your resume would make the bottom of the pile.
I worked at Apple for 8.5 years creating and managing teams and am very sorry to hear this. I had an amazing time at Apple working with several teams all over the company. Small teams are like families and this sort of thing was hardly ever heard of. I can only speculate that you were on a larger team with a "Creative Director" that didn't create much of anything. That being said confronting the person might have helped your situation.
Don't let this put a bad taste in your mouth, but it is certainly unfortunate and shouldn't happen to anyone; especially at a place like Apple that many people aspire to work for.
Next time talk to someone and make them aware of the situation. Companies like Apple have an HR department for a reason.
Why did you leave after 8.5 years?
I needed a change of pace. I do miss it some times, though.
As I said earlier, I could have escilated things to the HR department, but I was contracted by one company and paid by another contracting company and didn't have any contact with anyone from Apple's HR. Also, I was trying to suck it up and just take things day by day. Maybe they would get better, I thought. I just hit a breaking point with the BS and walked. Was it the smartest move? Probably not. But that's' what I did.
Sad to hear that "acting professionally" means staying quiet about abuses of authority.
I could be wrong, but the impression I've been getting is that 'acting professionally' is escalating to HR, confronting the boss, and essentially handling it. I hate to say it, but Jordan here pretty much kept quiet, and left because he 'didn't' do those things....
I could be wrong.
Like Jordan, I've been in similar situations. I think it's safe to say we all have at one time or another.
What ultimately makes the difference is how we handle things.
When a cat like this abuses his authority, the best thing to do is go to HR, or have a little chat with the guy... tell him to knock off the jokes, or...hell....throw one back at him.....maybe the guy just has a messed up sense of humour and is looking for someone to josh around with.... hard to say... either way, I'm sorry for Jordan....it sucks to have a dream gig like that meltdown in the way that it did...but use this as a learning experience....try and think, 'what would i do differently next time. my guess is that just from reading these comments, Jordan has probably learned a thing or two....(usually the reason for sharing something big like this is to learn a thing or two from other folks experience)
Neither of those options are realistic.
There's a large power differential in any relationship between an employee and a boss. Good bosses do what they can to mitigate that problem, but to simply say "Just confront him about it!" assumes a level of equality between two parties that often doesn't exist—it certainly doesn't exist in this situation.
Frankly, I'm quite surprised to see how many people think going to HR is the right move. It's so widely known that HR is not going to advocate for employees, Google autocompletes the search term "HR is not" with "HR is not your friend" and "HR is not on your side".
Here's study on workplace bulling, which found that 83% of the time, when HR was told about the bullying, they either did nothing or took negative actions against the target of bullying.
Most of the time, bully situations are resolved by the target transferring (11%), quitting (38%) or getting fired (44%), so despite all the advice to try to work it out, this is statistically unlikely to be effective.
The lack of support for Jordan in this comment thread is consistent with the data, which shows that coworkers are the least likely to be supportive of targets of bullying. Given high chance of retaliation, it is in the self-interest of coworkers to try to distance themselves from a target to avoid sharing the same fate.
Yeah, definitely handled the worst possible way. Doesn't sound like you made any effort to resolve any of the problems through talking to HR or even to the manager in question, which leads me to believe this was just a little bit of an ego boost / good story to tell friends.
I completely understand wanting to spend more time with your family, no one is going to fault you on that - but just walking out on what I assume was a team of people relying on you, and then asking for a job in the same paragraph just doesn't sit well with me. Who would want a designer that would just walk out the door if they had any grievances, instead of saying something or trying to resolve it?
Asking out of curiosity - did you ever speak with HR, coworkers, or even your boss about the issues you've been having? I'd assume a company like Apple would have a very structured HR department for any sort of complaints, harassment, etc that could look into the issues you've been having.
It would be a shame if you left your job without fighting for it first.
About a month ago [...] I had been offered an interview at Apple
Am I missing something or did all this drama happen over the course of one month ?
That's quite a fast transition from interviewee to dreading Sunday nights...
Then again, perhaps it's a typo or I'm missing something re: the timeline of the events.
This I want to know. I've had bad working situations but nothing is unbearable for just a couple weeks (especially if there's free lunch involved)
I've been in jobs where the first 3 days were hell (and it never slowed down). Granted, these were small startups but they're out there.
Sidenote: Lunch is not free at Apple, but fairly cheap and very tasty.
It was only a contact gig. They generally are much quicker to get.
He's referring to the fact that things escalated and he walked out of the job after only a month. It seems a bit unreasonable that he chose to take this route so quickly.
I was wondering the exact same thing.
In a challenging job role, or change from your experience you should always give any job 3 months or so!
I agree with so many of the posts on this page, and couldn't disagree more with the "get up and never come back" attitude.
So you didn't like working at Apple. Hand in your notice, find another job and get over it..
It's good that you don't want to work there anymore because your actions guarantee that you won't.
Every designer goes through immaturity lessons like this, I certainly have and I'm pretty sure I'm going to learn a few more at my new super corporate design job.
I understand the family angle. I understand the commute angle. I understand the crappy manager angle.
But don't spin this like it's some sort of insightful post. It's not. It's a whiney, one-sided, biased livejournal post.
For your professional future, delete this article.
He made a series of poor decisions. He should own up to the consequences of his actions.
Delete, not to hide from the reality of his decision, but to mitigate the wide range of career related consequences down the road.
So you left in the worst way you could ever chose, and then you come back pointing fingers at one of the most successful companies of all times?
And all that because you couldn't handle a j*erk boss? With a daughter at home?
Man, I wish you all the luck in the world getting a new job.
I will be very curious to see who hires him next. Hope they don't read the Internet. If his name is searched, his Medium article will surely show up.
When you google Jordan Price the most part of the results are about the boobs of a girl named Katie "Jordan" Price :)
Look at all these conformist designers sucking it up to the man...
I can only imagine how disappointing it must've been. It's a shame there are people out there like your boss who don't (or perhaps do) realise the impact they're having on people's lives with their work conduct.
Thanks for the understanding. It was a big time disappointment.
Quite possibly the worst choice out of the options available... but it makes for a good story that's for sure!
"Then at lunch time I wiped the iPad data clean, put the files I had been working on neatly on the server, left all their belongings on my desk, and I got in my car and drove home. I left a message for my boss and told him he’s the worst boss I had ever encountered in my entire professional career and that I could no longer work under him no matter how good Apple might look on my resume."
Oh, my dear god. Don't do stuff like this. Ever. Leave immediately if you must, but never EVER give people an angle to blame you for a bad situation. And if you're in the mood to write a super-heated e-mail, take a break, take a walk, play with the kid, and then come back to it when you're in a more diplomatic mood.
I know. You want to pay this asshole back for how he made you feel. But you can't. Now you're not the great developer that this horrible manager drove out, you're the guy who pitched a childish fit when he couldn't get along with his boss. This is how he will describe the situation, at any rate. And you won't be around to defend yourself.
And it really doesn't sound like you took proper steps to fix the situation. Or to at least make sure the various HR groups involved knew of the problem before you pitched a fit. You must do this. It's annoying. And can take time. So you need to start the process before you're at your breaking point. And you can't be shy about figuring out who to approach. It's in everyone's best interest to prevent situations like this.
Being unhappy doesn't give you license to do whatever you want. I wish it did -- life would be so much less frustrating if we could just put the assholes in their place. But we can't. At least, it's not appropriate in professional settings.
You're obviously gonna get mixed responses for doing this but fuck it - see what happens.
The guy who said "There isn't a job in the world that is more important than the time you spend with your family." nailed it.
Yea, people will talk about how you could have done it differently and there's lots of coulda shoulda woulda but they weren't there and only you know whether or not you did the right thing.
Enjoy family time, see what you can learn from what went down, and move on.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you find something that makes sense.
If stepping up and telling that shitty boss that you don't appreciate those sort of comments landed me on a "shit list", then fine by me.
Your actions made you look weak and fragile. You took your ball and went home. Its admirable that you'd want more family time and I'm not denying that it hurt to miss your kid, but make this the last time you bother letting anybody's company validate you - especially as a designer. And teach your kid the same thing.
Best of luck and delete the post. Its not a good look - you aren't Eddy Cue hashing out his transgressions with Apple. You're were contractor, get real.
I read your article, read the comments on Medium, and read most of the comments here.
I have had my fair share of shitty bosses, shitty recruiters, and shitty people in my employed life. The first thing you should do is delete that article though. In the past, I've wanted to call out certain recruitment agencies for the assholes they hire, but I knew I would end up screwing myself.
Of course, I told all my friends and family face-to-face, but the Internet is a much larger stage (I wonder if Medium articles are cached by Google). The best thing you could have done in any situation is communicate to someone, anyone. I had an issue with payment once and no one in another agency picked up the phone, so I searched online for the CEO, found her number and left her a voicemail explaining the situation. A few hours later, my problem was solved.
Isn't Tim Cook's email something like firstname.lastname@example.org?
One of the main responsibilities of a designer is solving problems. I'm afraid your actions look like you are incapable of doing so. That being said, I probably would have done the same thing you did, but I would talk with a few of my co-workers first. Figure out who is going to take on my workload when I leave, and if I have any project duties to finish first.
Oh, and I would have found another job before walking out on this one. Like many have mentioned in this already super-long thread, the consensus seems to be 50/50 in favor of you.
Good luck with everything though! My girlfriend has a 4-year-old so it's like I basically have a daughter too. Puts a lot of things in perspective, and makes dealing with bullshit a dealbreaker.
P.S. I feel like I rambled on for a bit, I'm still trying to wake up.
This culture of employee abuse is not unique to Apple, from my own experiences it seems to go hand in hand with large organizations. There is an attitude that you are lucky to have a job, versus the employer who recognizes they are lucky to have top design talent.
I can see how one would be conflicted about leaving such a resume booster, but think about it this way: everything you designed for Apple would be locked down under NDA, so you wouldn't be able to put much in your portfolio. Depending on what you were working on, you wouldn't be able to put much of a personal stamp on anything, so you're basically living Office Space to learn how to design "the Apple way" and getting paid below market rate, which if it's on apple.com — no thank you.
In San Francisco design is in high demand, if you were living somewhere else you might not have had the luxury of choice. Jordan should be proud he opted for self respect, and can certainly find someone to work for where his own design talents can shine through, rather than replicating a corporate voice.
I have no problem with leaving a shitty situation and applaud you for making the best decision for you and your family, but the way you left doesn't sit well with me. Just because your boss was a dick doesn't mean you should've just left without telling anyone.
I'm sure others depended on you to get certain jobs done so you let them down. Your boss deserved to be let down, but not your co-workers.
To be honest it just sounds like you were too scared to have a talk with your boss or HR about this. If your dream was to work at Apple you had a chance to really make it happen by making things better. Maybe you could've transferred to another department or team. What you did was highly unprofessional and hopefully it doesn't affect your chances of finding more work in the future.
Either way best of luck with everything.
While I understand the frustration and I have a feeling you can even be a even keeled designer, "Rage Quit" is not a good move. In fact, it had made your bad boss looks good. But I wish you the best of luck and I think you will do fine.
The number one reason an employee will leave a company is because of their manager. It sucks that you had to deal with verbal abuse in such a respected company.
That being said, I would have suggested reporting the events to HR. Chances are, you're not the first to deal with those issues. On top of it, you're helping future employees by doing so.
Last but not least, have some professionalism when you quit. Don't let your ego get in the way of doing the responsible thing. Walking out will only make the manager feel his actions were validated.
Nice avatar, I see what you did there :)
You should tell your boss face to face your opnions about his personality. But I totally support your final decision (leave the job). It's impossible on long term to be happy as a designer in a company that don't let u have time for family and have a jerk boss/people around you. It's just too much negative energy to hold.
But sadly I've seen a lot of people keeping this kind of jobs for money or for social status.
Good luck in your new journey.
Always be your own boss, no matter what.
I really don't understand why so many of you want Jordan to delete the article, let the man have a past, why cover stuff up? Why do things out of fear?
At least we got his perspective, if Jordan stayed quiet, would HR even look into this? (probably, but this article might do bigger impact somehow)
Sorry to hear that :/
I'm curious if there's a substantial difference between the way contractors and full-time employees are treated.
From the wording of the article it just seemed like a shit boss that treated everyone, regardless if they were a contractor or not, like garbage.
The biggest difference is that contractors are reminded constantly that they may or may not have their contract renewed. Also contractors get no Apple discount, no use of company gym, lower pay (I think), and can only go into certain buildings on campus.
I don't know that this is fair. There's quite a bit of speculation on your part that seems to be based on your personal experience only. And specifically with one boss. Perhaps other bosses don't remind their contractors that they might not get renewed? I know of people that have done really well contracting for Apple (monetarily, can't speak to their bosses). Have you spoken to others that received pay cuts for transitioning to this sort of contract work at Apple? I'm also surprised as most of the people I know that have worked or interviewed at Apple were offered/hired full-time positions and had a very long interview process with a lot of people. The ones that were contract/freelance were not looking for a full-time position.
From my own experience, freelance/contract will make way more money than a full time position. But of course you don't get the company benefits. So hearing of a pay cut to go freelance vs full-time seems strange.
Sorry to hear about your terrible experience though. It sounds like one person ruined the whole company for you and that really is a bummer.
Did you ever think that he was so rude because no-one ever spoke up against him? Who knows, he might have got fired if this got known higher up.
From what I've just read, I feel like you walked up on a job, instead of trying to make things better. Worst thing they could have done was to fire you anyways. And you might have had a chance to move higher up.
Wow. JorOne! Crazy how I'm commenting on a post by you when I was looking in awe of your sneaker customs in what seems like an eternity ago.
I think there's plenty of blame to go around. Whether it's the manager, agency or you. I I hope you realize you've burned bridges and although your Medium post will probably get you some leads, it probably pre-emptively burned some bridges you had yet to build -- at least in the short term.
I hope Apple investigates this on their and actually addresses the manager in question, but I do hope you recognize the areas you went wrong as well.
The author's actions aside, I think the post really does highlight the importance of person-organization fit versus person-group or in this case "person-boss " fit.
I find it hard to comprehend that you left without discussing things with your boss (or his superior). Did you give him any indication as to how uncomfortable he was making you feel?
Sorry that you had such a bad experience at Apple, but you shouldn't have given up on your dream job because of one shitty manager, especially not in the way you did. I spent 3 months at Apple as an intern and my manager was really really great, she was super nice, very constructive and made me feel like a proper part of their team.
Jordan, you did what was best for you. It's unfortunate it didn't work out. I see no broken moral rules here, your reaction to the situation needs no defense. I don't see how your actions are up for debate. Doesn't seem fair to assume about a situation I personally wasn't involved in. Only if we were all as wise as every clairvoyant commenting here who can see how to handle every bad situation perfectly. Sorry your dream job turned out terrible, the best part is you've learned more about what that perfect job might be. Good luck in the future.
I am sorry to hear your experience. Although, this could happen anywhere at any major company. Also, being a designer is not just about skills, empathy is equally important. In my opinion, you should have tried to talk to your HR face-to-face once before deciding to walk out. Although, sometimes your gut knows what's best to do. Only time will tell if this was the best thing to do, but as long as you feel like it was the right thing, who are we to comment.
Ha, I still remember your post on here about your interview at Apple. Too bad it didn't work out. Have to applaud your decision, quality time with family and a respectful boss are incredibly important.
Definitely split camps here. Although, more people side on the professional bit.
Curious though, if you replaced the idea of a work relationship with that of a girlfriend/boyfriend would a one-month mark be as bad?
Would he seem "unrelationshipable" for leaving after one-month?
While I do wholeheartedly agree that things could've been done better I also believe when you know something, you know it. Your gut gives a reaction for a reason. I've left a gig after a month because there were enough signs that no matter how long I stuck it out, things weren't going to get better. So I bounced.
Granted, I don't talk about that gig in interviews I do understand why he'd leave so quickly. Sometimes you just know.
He mentioned something on his twitter feed about how his employment itself was a bit complicated. Contracting for a Company that was contracted by Apple, or something along those lines (a third-party recruiter fits into the narrative somewhere too).
Which might have some correlation with his lack initiative of taking action with HR & etc --- because there actually wasn't a "contract" directly with Apple.
Is there anyone here currently working at Apple. I really wonder how their bosses behave.
Best boss I've ever had.
Is a little bit too late to delete the post: https://www.google.pt/#q=I+wanted+to+work+at+apple+really+bad
It's on the Huffington Post too?! Welp, oh well.
Its all over, too bad he misrepresented himself in terms of "working at apple". Maybe it was the pressure he felt from his social feed to make such a loud declaration.
He cited that announcing that he "landed" this job got more noticed than the birth of his child.