A challenge to all DN users

5 years ago from Shane Boland, front-end design/shopify optimization

  • Bennett WongBennett Wong, 5 years ago (edited 5 years ago )

    Who should you invite to DN?

    a) A male

    b) A female

    c) Someone who is interested in design news


    ɔ :ɹǝʍsuɐ ʇɔǝɹɹoɔ

    91 points
    • Diana Lopez, 5 years ago

      What is exclusionary about "try to invite women"? You can invite men too. All this topic is saying is try to make a point to invite a woman to balance out the numbers.

      33 points
      • Crampa ...Crampa ..., 5 years ago

        You're saying we should invite women to balance out the numbers. Seems unnatural and forced.

        23 points
        • Ryan RushingRyan Rushing, 5 years ago (edited 5 years ago )

          Unnatural and forced only for those who don't know any designers who are women.

          14 points
        • Klare FrankKlare Frank, 5 years ago

          People who don't want to sign up won't. It's more about giving the option to a wider range of people. Nothing forced about that.

          6 points
    • Anna NiessAnna Niess, 5 years ago (edited 5 years ago )

      I regularly tell both men and women about DN if I think they are interested. It seems you are missing the point.

      Consider how women who speak up are treated in online communities, and you have you answer in why so few women are on Designer News. Message boards, comments sections, and social media can be pretty terrifying places for women.

      The great thing is, DN is one of the few accepting and professional forums I've ever seen. Way more women should be involved and contributing to this place. It's an incredible resource as is, and women can bring more diverse content and points of view that we can all benefit from.

      Dismissing the absence of women in design and technology fields as not a problem, or not something that doesn't need to be addressed... is exactly the problem.

      37 points
      • Jonathan ShariatJonathan Shariat, 5 years ago

        Exactly, the population is 50-50 so if theres less than that we should be asking why. More so if it doesn't match the number currently in our industry.

        But when its as little as 8%, we should worry that voices our community needs, perspectives our community needs, aren't getting enough representation.

        So we should ask why, we should invite them. Sure invite everyone, but obviously that hasn't reached enough women, so we should go out of our way to invite a few.

        17 points
      • Stephanie WalterStephanie Walter, 5 years ago

        "Message boards, comments sections, and social media can be pretty terrifying places for women." => As a female designer who comments on DN and other social networks, I'd like to know why you think it's terrifying for us. Is there any kind of study ? I'd be really interested in.

        11 points
        • Rachel WhiteRachel White, 5 years ago (edited almost 5 years ago )

          Seriously?

          20 points
          • Stephanie WalterStephanie Walter, 5 years ago

            Yes, seriously :) I did not say that she was wrong, neither did I say that there is no problem in our industry, au contraire. I only wanted more detailed information on the topic, as a woman who tries to not bee scared to express herself on the internet (and yes I agree this is really hard)

            0 points
        • Anna NiessAnna Niess, 5 years ago (edited 5 years ago )

          Yes! I'm happy to provide some good reads for anyone who wants to understand the degree to which this is a problem.

          Here is the Pew Study on Online Harassment Listed as a Key Finding is "Young women, those 18-24, experience certain severe types of harassment at disproportionately high levels."

          Time: There’s No Comparing Male and Female Harassment Online

          Forbes: Now, Will Twitter Take The Harassment Of Women Seriously?

          Pacific Standard Essay: Why Women Aren't Welcome on the Internet

          A particularly heartbreaking story in recent news is that of Anita Sarkeesian, a video game critic who talks about misogynistic tropes in video games (design) and gamer culture (community). Washington Post: ‘Gamergate’: Feminist video game critic Anita Sarkeesian cancels Utah lecture after death threats

          Finally, I'd like to address that the top comment here has 57 points, and the idea presented is that despite the extreme minority of female DN users, they should continue to invite people solely based on merit and ignore the gender gap completely. Please, please, PLEASE read this: How The Meritocracy Myth Affects Women In Technology.

          There are so, so SO many more resources and articles on this topic. A simple google will overwhelm you. Its ALL of our responsibilities to make DN an inviting place for women, and do our best to help that stat reach 50%.

          Alright. I think I've covered it. Have a great day everyone!

          44 points
          • Ian MortierIan Mortier, 5 years ago

            Thanks for the great reply.

            3 points
          • Josh CarrJosh Carr, 5 years ago

            Thank you for your reply and these articles.

            3 points
          • Wesley HainesWesley Haines, 5 years ago

            this is one of the best posts i've seen on DN in a long time. well done.

            2 points
            • Anna NiessAnna Niess, 5 years ago (edited 5 years ago )

              Thanks! I'm glad to know there are people out there who are listening and appreciative.

              2 points
          • Stephanie WalterStephanie Walter, 5 years ago

            Thanks a lot for the detailed reply Anna. I'm well aware of this "non women friendly" culture on the internet, got myself bullied on social networks a couple of times. But I really try to not let it stop me from commenting, having nice discussions. It's sometimes hard to not let them stop you from commenting and tweeting, but I try to do my best :/

            1 point
          • Sam GoldSam Gold, 5 years ago

            Awesome post! Thanks so much for all of these resources!

            0 points
    • Clay MacTavishClay MacTavish, 5 years ago

      C.

      2 points
    • Rachel WhiteRachel White, 5 years ago

      He didn't say invite women just for the sake of inviting women.

      He said designers who are women, who we can all assume would be interested in news for designers.

      8 points
    • Simon Vansintjan, 5 years ago

      It's this exact same conversation that is happening in the rest of the tech world. Guess what? You're wrong when it comes to this.

      Sure, all things being equal it would make sense to prefer to invite "people interested in design". But all things aren't equal - the statistics clearly show this. They show this in work environments, they show this in pay rates, they show this in who's taking care of children, etc.

      I personally doubt that it's because there's less women interested in design news. Design doesn't strike me as a classically unequally distributed profession. My personal experience is counter to this (though I am a man, I don't really know). I don't think the fault lies with women (as seems to be the implication of this response).

      So then the next step is to examine in our community what is actually happening, and why there is such an imbalance. Why are there more men on Designer News? Is it because it's an unsafe environment? Is it because they feel like they're excluded? Is it because they have less time?

      Maybe the answer is not to invite more women to designer news. I don't think the case is that they're not hearing about it. Maybe the answer is to talk to the women who were here and left. Why did they leave? Why aren't they coming back? Maybe it's time for Designer News to have a critical examination of itself before it goes down the Reddit and HackerNews trajectories.

      0 points